Tuvunje Muungano? - JamiiForums |The Home of Great Thinkers

Go Back   JamiiForums |The Home of Great Thinkers > Public Forums > Jukwaa la Siasa


Jukwaa la Siasa Tanzania & World Politics General Discussion Forum. You need to be registered in order to post your comment(s)


Poll: TUVUNJE MUUNGANO?
Poll Options
TUVUNJE MUUNGANO?

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 26th June 2006, 08:41 PM   #1 (permalink)
Tuvunje Muungano?
Sam Sam is offline 26th June 2006, 08:41 PM
Rating: (3 votes - 5.00 average)

Nimevumilia vya kutosha nikidhani kama kuna mtu anayekerwa na fumbuzi wa matatizo ya muungano yaliyotolea kwenye kikao cha pamoja kati ya Mh. Lowassa na Mh. Nahodha.

Kitu kinachonitisha ni kwamba yale mambo waliowaamulia wananchi yatapelekwa bungeni october kwa ajili ya "constitutional reforms".
Kwa upande wangu sikubaliana na ufumbuzi waliofikia kwa 100%
Check this out:

1) mineral and oil exploration be co-opted into the national debate on the future of the political federation.

-debate is good but mineral and oil exploration should not be political.

2)Tanzania Petroleum Development Corporation (TPDC) should have an equal number of representatives from either side.

-Equal number kwa vigezo gani? Idadi ya watu? Tuelezene mlivyokuja na hiyo soultion equal number of people.

3)consultant on the distribution of wealth generated through mining and oil extraction be hired to advise the Union government on how it can be shared equitably.

-Please kama ni hivyo na huo muungano hatuutaki. For what?

4)It was decided that 50 per cent of the income would be used to finance the operations of the authority and the other 50 per cent be distributed on the basis of 60 per cent for the Mainland and 40 per cent for Zanzibar.

-Hivi hizo hesabu mnafanyaje? How did you come up with 60%, ardhi, watu,?????

Najua watanzania hawataki kuongelea muungano wakiogopa mizimu ya Mwalimu. Kwa upande wangu kuna mambo mawili tu hapa ambayo yanaweza kuleta ufumbuzi wa kudumu kwanza kuuvunja muungana na Zanzibar ikawa nchi kama ilivyo Kenya na tutaendelea kushirikian nao kama tunavyoshirikiana na Kenya, au Zanzibar uwe mkoa. zanzibar kuna watu wasiozidi 3 mil wakati mkoa wa Dar tu una watu 4 mil. Hapo utajiuliza ni kivitu tugawane nusu kwa nusu?

Kama watu hamtaki kuongela hili sual basi mwezi October linaingia kwenye katiba.



Mkataba wa makubaliano ya kuanzisha muungano wa Tanganyika na Zanzibar ukisainiwa mwaka 1964.

Mkataba wenyewe (uliosainiwa) umeambatanishwa kama attachment.

Attached Files
File Type: zip Muungano_1964.zip (25.5 KB, 0 views)


Last edited by Invisible; 1st July 2009 at 11:26 AM.. Reason: No reason :-D

Sam
JF Senior Expert Member
Join Date: Tue Jun 2006
Posts: 578
Thanks: 27
Thanked 159 Times in 97 Posts
Views: 84465
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sam For This Useful Post:
Kalalangambo (19th August 2008), Kungurumweupe (7th August 2008), Mauza uza (19th August 2008)
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July 2006, 10:35 PM
Sam Sam is offline
Sam has no status.
JF Senior Expert Member
 
Join Date: Tue Jun 2006
Posts: 578
Thanks: 27
Thanked 159 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 25
Sam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud of
Credits: 48,047,420
Default

Hivi nyie watu humu haya niliyoandika ni upuuzi ama nini? Watanzania tumezoea mpaka kitu kitendeke ndiyo tuanze kulalamika. Haya mambo yataingizwa kwenye katiba ya muungano. Hivi ni kweli watu humu ndani mnayaunga mkono au hamna la kusema. Najua Mkandara unayaunga mkono how about the rest?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Sam For This Useful Post:
Kungurumweupe (7th August 2008)
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 3rd July 2006, 11:34 PM
Mkwawa has no status.
Member
 
Join Date: Sun Jul 2006
Posts: 37
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
Mkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud ofMkwawa has much to be proud of
Credits: 282,965
Send a message via ICQ to Mkwawa
Default

Hili suala hata mimi niliwahi kusema si suala la Lowassa na Vuai!

Hivi CCM na viongozi wake ni lini watakubaliana kuwa watanzania wana mawazo nao wanaweza kuchangia?

Kuhusu muungano ninakubaliana na wewe ni vema tuuvunje kwanza au iundwe serikali moja hata ukisoma kitabu cha Mwalimu uongozi na ... alishauri serikali moja kwa sababu alisema muundo wa muungano ni serilaki mbili kuelekea serkali moja baadaye. Lakini zanzibar cini ya CUF na CCM wenye we huko wanataka serikali tatu ili waendelee kutunyonya zaidi!!


Sawa haya ya (Lowaasa na Vuai )yakipelekwa bungeni yakapitishwa yatakuwa mabaya zaidi kuliko hata ya Nyerere na Karume . Hawa watu wa bara wataumia zaidi lakini hao hao wa bara wamekuwa kama

walinyweshwa dawa kuhuu muungano hawataki kabisa kuungolea!!!


Hapa ndipo huwa ninakubaliana na Mtikila!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mkwawa For This Useful Post:
Kungurumweupe (7th August 2008)
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 4th July 2006, 01:01 AM
Rufiji has no status.
JF Senior Expert Member
 
Join Date: Sun Jun 2006
Posts: 666
Thanks: 126
Thanked 351 Times in 184 Posts
Rep Power: 25
Rufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud ofRufiji has much to be proud of
Credits: 1,567,850
Default

Sam,

Inasikitisha sana kusoma huo mswada unaotegemewa kufanywa sheria katika siku za usoni , swali langu mimi ni moja tuu Watanzania ni nani aliyetuloga ? Kwa nini atufikirii kabla ya kufanya maamuzi ?

Kweli , kuna haja ya kuwa rocket scientist kujua ya kuwa huo mswada ni ujinga na ni kuwatukana wazalendo ? Yaani mapato ya madini yagawanywe katika uwiano wa 60% bara na 40 % zanzibar ....Ni vigezo gani wametumia kupata hizi figure ? kwanza zanzibar ina population ya watu wangapi .

Sam , naona utakuwa unaumiza kichwa tuu . Hawa viongozi awajali watu wa kawaida wanachodai ni masilahi yao binafsi ! siasa za bongo ni upotevu wa muda kwani wananchi wako so dormant na mara nyingi wanaishia kulalamika tuu .kikifika kipindi cha uchaguzi wanapitishiwa mswada wa kuwapa pilau " wanahongwa pilau " then wanawachagua kwa asilimia 80%.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Rufiji For This Useful Post:
Kungurumweupe (7th August 2008), Yebo Yebo (25th July 2007)
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 4th July 2006, 01:30 AM
Ogah is Omnipotent
JF Premium Member
 
Join Date: Fri Mar 2006
Posts: 2,651
Thanks: 4,594
Thanked 1,579 Times in 896 Posts
Rep Power: 2029
Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!Ogah is one of most respected JF members!
Credits: 6,787,061
Default

sam,

si kweli kwamba watu wanapenda hayo makubaliano kati ya EL na SVN.

Hapa wengi wetu tumeshikwa na butwaa, maana pa kusemea hatuna zaidi ya hapa TEF.

Hii ni chokochoko ambayo nahisi Wabara wakishtuka na kupiga kelele tu Zenji nao watadai kwa NGUVU ZOTE kuwa VUNJA MUUNGANO, kwani wanajua (wazenji) fika kuwa wao ndio wanafaidika zaidi na hayo makubaliano, tena kuliko hata ilivyokuwa mwanzo. Na Wazanzibari wao wanatumia UDHAIFU wa Wabara (wapenda Muungano) KUFAIDIKA. In short kama mifano ya Mh Mkandara, Wabara sasa tunampenda sana MWALI na inabidi MLIPE MAHARI ZAIDI, KAMA HAMTAKI, MWALI NAYE ANASEMA BASI.

Whether we like it or not, this is very serious issue na very sensitive

sam, maswali yako ni ya msingi kabisa, sasa basi

1.Ni nani atakayejitokeza kwa nguvu zote na kusikika KUPINGA HAYO MAKUBALIANO beyond hapa TEF?
2.Hizi ni kampeni za kisiasa ndani ya CCM, naanza kuamini kuwa EL anaandaliwa kuchukua nafasi ya JM. hivyo basi hiyo ni kampeni ya EL kupata kura toka CCM ZNZ
3.Inabidi tuendelee kupiga kelele, ili uelekeo wa maamuzi ya Muungano uwe zaidi kutokea kwa WANANCHI WA PANDE ZOTE na si watu wawili
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 4th July 2006, 02:24 AM
Mkandara Aviator
JF Premium Member
 
Join Date: Fri Mar 2006
Location: T dot
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 3,284
Thanked 4,297 Times in 2,038 Posts
Rep Power: 76
Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!
Credits: 21,599,290,138
Default

Sam,
Acha uhuni weee! sema umetaka kusikia comment zangu kuhusu swala hili.
Kumbuka mshikaji mimi hutazama shilingi kwa vigezo vya reality kisha correct way ya kumaliza tatizo bila kuingia mkenge. What's right or wrong haiwezi kusaidia kitu kwani dunia hii haina sheria za kanisani wala msikitini.

Kwanza kabisa lazima tukubali kwamba nchi yetu tunatawaliwa. Hilo nawaunga mkono sana Chadema, na Kama alivyodai Mbowe tunahitaji viongozi wa kutuongoza kulinda uhuru wetu na kutupeleka mbele kufikia kujitegemea... Hizi ni nyayo za Nyerere ambazo hata mimi nazikubali.

Swala la Muungano ni zito sana. Sipendi kuona muungano umevunjika kwa sababu ya mirathi na kubwa zaidi - eti sababu Zanzibar ni mtoto wa nje.

Nadhani Zanzibar wana kila haki ya mirathi hiyo ndani ya muungano lakini sio kwa kipimo ambacho kimetumika. Pili, sikubaliani na mirathi yeyote iliyokuwa sawa ikiwa mtoto huyu bado anadai mirathi toka kwa baba yake mzazi (Uchumi wa serikali ya Zanzibar), hali Bara hatuna serikali ndogo isipokuwa Federal. Hapa zilitakiwa serikali tatu kuweka mgao na serikali ndogo zote ziwe na mapato yake yatakayokuwa yakilipa kodi kwa serikali kuu.

Utoaji wa fedha zaidi kwa seikali moja Utakubalika tu pale penye miradi ya kitaifa. Mathlan, Ujenzi kwa uwanja wa ndege wa kimataifa Zanzibar.

Tatu na kibaya zaidi sikubaliani na hatua hii kwa sababu Zanzibar wanaamini kabisa ni nchi inayohitaji kujitenga. kwa hiyo hatua ya kwanza ni kufanyika kwa referendum ifahamike wazi wananchi wanapendekeza kitu gani. Wakichagua kijitenga hakuna haja ya muswada huu kupelekwa bungeni. Wakichagua kuendeleza Muungano basi, muswada huu ufikishwe bungeni pamoja na ule utakao unda serikali ya tatu bara. Na sheria ipitishwe swala hili la muungano halitazungumziwa tena na jina Wazanzibar lifutike ktk kamusi... sote Watanzania.

Sam,
Nilikaa kimya kwa sababu nyingine ya reality!

Toka lini sisi wananchi tukawa na sauti ktk maamuzi ya mikataba?.. Hiyo Gas, Petrol, Madini na mengineyo tunapokea ruzuku tu na hakuna kati yetu anayefahamu mikataba hii.

Unajua hivi majuzi nilishangaa sana nilipoona kuwa mwaka 2003 Songas imeuzwa kwa Mu-ingereza toka Kwa Mu-Australia baada ya miaka mitano ya uuzalishaji.... mmhhh! kuna harufu mbaya hapa lakini ukweli umesimama Songos imeuzwa na leo hii soko lake limehamia Uingereza toka Ausie sio DSE.

Umesikia mwenyewe walivyomsimamisha Zitto kuhusu mikataba kwahiyo hata hili halina maana kwani bungeni wamejaa CCM. Upinzani mkubwa bado upo Zanzibar na ndio pekee wanaoweza kuwaharibia jina kwa sababu ya KULA.
__________________
Exploration of reality
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Mkandara For This Useful Post:
Shedafa (26th July 2008)
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 4th July 2006, 05:35 PM
Sam Sam is offline
Sam has no status.
JF Senior Expert Member
 
Join Date: Tue Jun 2006
Posts: 578
Thanks: 27
Thanked 159 Times in 97 Posts
Rep Power: 25
Sam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud ofSam has much to be proud of
Credits: 48,047,420
Default

Mzee Mkandara,
Mimi naamini hakuna kitu kitachotutengenisha kati yenu na Zanzibar kijamii, sisi ni wamoja na tunashirikiana vizuri sana kijamii. Muungano wa kiuchumi na kisiasa unaturudisha nyuma sana kimaendeleo. Ni kitu ambacho hakiingii akilini kwa nini Zanzibar iwe na serikali yake ndani yamuungano wakati Dar es Salaam ambayo wakati wake ni mara mbili ya wakazi wa visiwani na bado wanataka wachukua 40% for what. Kama hawataki Zanzibar uwe mkoa basi muungano wa kisisa na uchumi ufe, ni gharama kubwa kwa serikali ya Muungano.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sam For This Useful Post:
Kungurumweupe (7th August 2008), Lusajo (19th August 2008), Ng'azagala (27th July 2008)
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 4th July 2006, 11:57 PM
Jasusi a truth seeker
JF Premium Member
 
Join Date: Fri May 2006
Posts: 3,118
Thanks: 4,417
Thanked 2,163 Times in 1,027 Posts
Rep Power: 30
Jasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud of
Credits: 1,766,219,989
Default

Sam,
Unajua Wamarekani walivamia Hawaii, wakamwua mfalme wake, wakaiburuza katika USA, mambo kwisha. Hakuna hata siku moja unasikia Hawaii wanapiga kelele hiki au kile. Mwalimu alikuwa mwuungana sana. Angekuwa Nkrumah, Zanzibar hivi sasa ingekuwa mkoa tu. Hakuna kelele. Chagueni gavana wenu, mbunge wenu lakini katika Federal govenment kura yenu inalingana na idadi ya watu wenu. We should have done the same.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jasusi For This Useful Post:
Ng'azagala (27th July 2008)
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 5th July 2006, 03:05 AM
Mkandara Aviator
JF Premium Member
 
Join Date: Fri Mar 2006
Location: T dot
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 3,284
Thanked 4,297 Times in 2,038 Posts
Rep Power: 76
Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!Mkandara is one of most respected JF members!
Credits: 21,599,290,138
Default

Sam,
Maneno ya Jasusi ndiyo yangefunga kazi, lakini ndo...YANGE!
Zanzibar hatukumzaa sisi ni nchi ambayo inatakiwa kutambulika ndani ya muungano. Swala la Siasa lazima liongozane na Uchumi ktk muungano wowote wa nchi mbili, hii ni ndoa na huwezi kuleta mpango wa kienyeji. Tumeisha kula Yamin na haivunjiki bila kuwekwa ubani. Na ubani wenyewe ndio hiyo referendum. Kama bwana tunaweza kuwa na matumizi zaidi lakini haiwezekani tuseme hawana sauti kabisa. Tumefunga ndoa wenyewe tena kanisani ama msikitini, kilichotakiwa kilikuwa kuvuta ndani tu huku wake wa ndoa (mikoa) wakiwa na madaraka yao ya kiuchumi toka enzi zile za madaraka mikoani. Kwa hiyo Kisiasa ingejulikana tofauti na nje ya madaraka ya kiuchumi.
Nadhani swala hapa ni njia gani bora ktk muungano huu inapofikia kugawana mali. Kama ulivyosema asilimia 40.... toka wapi?.. hatuna serikali tatu. Mshikaji CCM sasa wanachemsha bara! Kama wanataka JM aonekane bingwa wa utawala basi hii ndiyo kaburi lao na kusema kweli nimepata habari za ndani kwamba wanaodai hasa kuwepo na wagombea binafsi wanatoka ndani ya CCM, hao mnaowasikia nje ni watu waliopandikizwa tu. Sii kazi mkasikia uchaguzi Ujao JM, Salim na Sumaye wanapigania kiti nje ya CCM kama wagombea binafsi. Kazi ipo na cheche za moto wanazianzisha wao wenyewe CCM. Habari hii ya 60 kwa 40 haikubaliki katu na vumbi litatoka bara.....Hiyo mikataba wananchi wapo radhi kuifumbia macho kwa sababu hawana elimu ya kufahamu hiyo mikataba lakini Mpango wa bara na visiwani hili swala jingine kabisa!
__________________
Exploration of reality
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 6th July 2006, 03:21 PM
Jasusi a truth seeker
JF Premium Member
 
Join Date: Fri May 2006
Posts: 3,118
Thanks: 4,417
Thanked 2,163 Times in 1,027 Posts
Rep Power: 30
Jasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud ofJasusi has much to be proud of
Credits: 1,766,219,989
Default

Mkandara,
Aaah! ndiyo maana Sumaye anakwenda Harvard, ili arejee na digrii ya utawala bora akijiweka sawa kwa 2010 au 2015? Kweli ndani ya CCM kuna mengi.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
mafuta, muungano, tanganyika, zanzibar


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Je, Zanzibar inasonga mbele au nyuma? Exaud J. Makyao Jukwaa la Siasa 75 23rd June 2009 08:23 PM
Tubadili Katiba tuulinde Muungano-2 MziziMkavu Jukwaa la Siasa 2 13th May 2009 12:44 PM
Ujumbe wa Mshikamano: Siri Zifichuliwe John Mnyika Jukwaa la Siasa 9 30th April 2009 01:20 PM
Hotuba ya Seif Shariff! JokaKuu Jukwaa la Siasa 129 2nd August 2007 01:21 AM

Tuma Ukurasa huu kwa rafiki yako!


All times are GMT +3. The time now is 01:52 AM.

Powered by JamiiForums.com
Copyrights reserved to JamiiForums.com

no new posts