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    1. Nzi's Avatar
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      Default Uraia wa nchi mbili... Siasa ya Bernard Membe

      Salaam wanaJF!

      Katika kipindi kirefu sana kumekuwa na mjadala juu ya kuruhusu uraia wa nchi mbili 'dual citizenship' katika taifa letu. Mjadala huu umepamba moto sana haswa katika uongozi wa waziri Bernard Membe. Hata katika hotuba ya bajeti ya wizara mwaka 2011/2012, ndugu Membe alizungumzia na kusisitizia suala hili. Kabla sijaenda mbele zaidi, naomba niulize, hivi ni sahihi kwa suala hili kujadiliwa na wizara inayoongozwa na ndugu Membe? Suala linaluhusu uraia kwanini lijadiliwe na wizara ya mambi ya nje, badala ya wizara ya mambo ya ndani?!

      Naendelea na mjadala. Mimi binafsi kama raia wa Tanzania sijaweza kuelewa hoja zote zinazotolewa katika kujustify dual citizenship. Hususani juu ya suala la kuongeza kuongeza uwekezaji kutoka na wanaoitwa watanzania walio nje. Hapa pia kuna maswali ya kujiuliza. Hivi mtanzania anatambulikaje? Kwa passport? Kwa kadi ya kupigia kura? Au? Kama mtu (alie na miaka zaidi ya 18) hana vyote hivi anaweza kutambulika kama mtanzania? Je, mtu aliekua na passport ya Tanzania, halafu akaikana kwa kuchukua passport ya nchi nyingine, huyu ataendelea kutambulika kama mtanzania au?

      Kama nia kuongeza uwekezaji, kwani hao watanzania walio nje wanakatazwa kuja kuwekeza? Tena hao wanakua na added advantage kwavile wanaifahamu nchi kuliko wawekezaji ambao hawana trace ya utanzania. Tena wakija kama wageni ndio watapokelewa vizuri zaidi kuliko wakija kama wazawa, kutokana na hali ya urasimu uliopo katika suala la uwekezaji wa wazawa. Katika hili, bado sijaona hoja nzito.

      Pia kuna suala la rasilimali watu. Kwamba kuna watanzania walio nje ya nchi ambao wana elimu na utaalamu wa mambo mbalimbali ambao pengine ni adimu au ungeweza kuongeza nguvu kazi katika taifa letu. Sawa. Je, hawezi kuja kama expatriates? Mbona tunao wengi tu katika sekta mbalimbali, kuanzia taasisi za elimu, mashirika ya umma, idara za serikali na taasisi za serikali na binafsi. Sasa hapa hao watanzania walio nje wanashindwa nini mpaka wapewe uraia mwingine?! Tena wakija kama expatriates watapata employment benefits nzuri zaidi kuliko wazawa. Hapa pia sijaona hoja nzito ya kupelekea uwepo wa dual citizenship.

      Sasa kama hizo ndio hoja za Membe, napatwa na wasiwasi kama dual citizenship ipo kwa maslahi ya umma au maslahi ya watu binafsi (nimesikia ndugu Membe ana watoto aliowazaa nje ya nchi!)

      Huu ni mtazamo wangu, kukosoana kwa manufaa ya kuelimishana kunakaribishwa.

      Asante.

      ----------------------

      Quote By galiya View Post
      The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must


      Dual Citizenship is a status in which a person is concurently regarded as a citizen under the laws of more than one state. Dual citizens have two passports and live and travel freely within their native and naturalized contries without immigration constraints. The Tanzania citizenship is governed by the Citizenship Act, 1995. This Act proscribes the right to dual citizenship. S. 7(4) provides"Any Citizen of Tanzania shall cease to be a citizen if having attained the age of 18 years, he acquires the citizenshp of some country other than Tanzania by a voluntary act other than marriage".

      The Tanzanian Constitution, 1977 unlike Constitutions of other countries eg Kenya and Uganda, is silent on the right to dual citizenship. Generally, citizenship in our Constitution is merely mentioned en passant.

      A significant number of Tanzanians are now living abroad and are scattered all over the world. They are now commonly known as THE DIASPORA COMMUNITY. Mean estimate is putting the number of Tanzanians in Diaspora at 2Million. This group, thus, account for 5% of our total population. This is an important constituency which has to be represented in the new constitution, in my humble view.

      There are many factors obtaining in Tanzania which have contributed to the exodus of skilled talent. They include poor conditions of service, potential human rights abuses, nepotism and favoratism, disregard for local talent, scarcirty of jobs, poor salaries, limited access to education, the 2001 Zanzibar chaos etc.

      African natives who are resident in industrialized nations have been prodding their home countries to provide for dual citizenship to make it possible to make them citizens of a second country. A lot of Tanzanians who are currently in the Diaspora have been agitating for the same. At the beginning, the issue of citizenship was resented but now it was beginning to be understood.

      Tanzania has been benefitting from people living abroad through remittances. Apart from tha,t Tanzanians living abroad have different professions and are experienced in several sectors of the economy, hence they would make immense contribution if they came back to work here. Some of them command respect the world over hence if properly utilized they could greatly contribute to their mother country development.

      The role of the Tanzanian Diaspora community has been, inter aia, to provide socio-economic support for some Tanzanians back home. Due to the extended family system, most of Tanzanians living abroad find themselves being regarded as crucial breadwinners of not only their immediate families but also their close family relatives.

      They normally pay for most of the financial needs of their dependants back at home such as medical and education fees, accomodations rentals and social events such as religious gatherings, funerals, birthday and wedding parties.

      in 2006, the Law Reform Commission of TZ under the Chairmanship of Judge A. Bahati recommended introduction of Dual Citizenship. The Commission stated that the issue deserved " a possitive and foward- looking consideration and that it was high time Tanzania adopted dual citizenship because in a globalized world, the country could not develop without interraction with other nations". More importantly, many developing nations scuch as Ghana have made significant economic strides after allowing dual citizenship a few years ago.Furthermore, Hon. B. Member, Minister for Foreign Affairs, a distingushed Diplomat stated the following in the National Assembly when responding to a question from one Vicky Kamata (CCM)
      "African countries have been benefitting from people living abroad through remittances. For the past year,
      a total of USD 40 Billion entered Africa through remittances out of which Tanzania received USD 250M.
      We are creating a good environment that will enable Tanzanians living abroad work in the country. We
      recognize them and respect their contribution to the country economic development. In the newly launched
      5 year develoment plan (2011-2015) the issue of Diaspora has been highlighted and given priority. This dual
      citizenship issue will also be included in the Constitutional debate..."

      Thus, in my view, Dual citizenship MUST be enshrined in our new Constitution.
      Great Thinkers, hii imekaaje?
      Taso and Laban Boaz like this.

    2. Azam

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By Gad ONEYA View Post
      When it came down to "allegiance", to whom will the person with multiple uraia be pledged? Dual citizenship will confer facilities and privileges without obligations. Apart from marginal economic and social benefits, it can create ambiguous loyalties among people holding it.
      What status will you confer to aid donors that give a lot of handouts to our government if you view the magnitude of aid they give?
      How could someone be a citizen of two countries at the same time? I bet it could be undermining the notion of nationhood especially to a nascent country like TZ.
      Assume the US is engaging into war with your second country(probably your mother country) and you are living in the US, what will you do in this situation or you will make it the Arab style, suicide bomber, which in turn will result to negative repercussions with your community living the US.

      Giving reasons of remittances back home as justification to conferring dual citizenship is too vague a definition of granting the status to make any credible conclusion about its establishment.

      If allowed, the decision will be based on narrow short term motivations and should be opposed.
      Ngoja nitafute Kamusi ya Kiingereza inisaidie kujua tofauti ya Citizenship na Nationality...ntarudi.
      CHIKOTI 35 likes this.

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By galiya View Post
      ..................... deletion ..............................

      Thus, in my view, Dual citizenship MUST be enshrined in our new Constitution.
      Great Thinkers, hii imekaaje?
      Mimi ninaona imetulia na nina support dual citizenship.

      More serious Je, umeshatoa haya maoni na mengine kwenye tume ya katiba mpya?

      Kama bado tafahadili tembelea www.katiba.go.tz au tuma maoni yako [email protected]

      GTs wote ambao hamjatoa maoni yenu kwa njia ya mikutano au kutuma maoni yenu kuhusu katiba mpya ninaomba mfanye hivyo please. Hakuna mtu atakayetupatia katiba NZURI kama hatutatoe maoni yetu nini tunataka kiwemo au kisiwemo kwenye katiba mpya. This is an opportunity we can't afford to miss. Let's build our country kwa kutoa maoni yetu kwenye tume ya katiba mpya.
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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Uraia wa nchi mbili ni hatari kwa nchi yetu. Haufai. Nyerere hakuwa mjinga kuukataa. Sababu zilizofanya kukataliwa bado zipo.

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Hii nilikuwa sijui, kumbe walioa/olewa hadi leo wanaruhusiwa kuwa na Dual, that good stuff.
      maskin likes this.

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By Gad ONEYA View Post
      When it came down to "allegiance", to whom will the person with multiple uraia be pledged? Dual citizenship will confer facilities and privileges without obligations. Apart from marginal economic and social benefits, it can create ambiguous loyalties among people holding it.
      What status will you confer to aid donors that give a lot of handouts to our government if you view the magnitude of aid they give?
      How could someone be a citizen of two countries at the same time? I bet it could be undermining the notion of nationhood especially to a nascent country like TZ.
      Assume the US is engaging into war with your second country(probably your mother country) and you are living in the US, what will you do in this situation or you will make it the Arab style, suicide bomber, which in turn will result to negative repercussions with your community living the US.

      Giving reasons of remittances back home as justification to conferring dual citizenship is too vague a definition of granting the status to make any credible conclusion about its establishment.

      If allowed, the decision will be based on narrow short term motivations and should be opposed.
      If any, please go to more than 98% countries over the world, and ask them how they made it to happen. I think, sometimes it's cumbersome for getting yourself down and minimized to the lowest order possible.

    8. Ulemavu

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      Quote By MkamaP View Post
      If any, please go to more than 98% countries over the world, and ask them how they made it to happen. I think, sometimes it's cumbersome for getting yourself down and minimized to the lowest order possible.
      What is the source of your data for this 98%?
      Last edited by Gad ONEYA; 28th November 2012 at 17:59.
      CHIKOTI 35 likes this.

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By gad oneya View Post
      what is source of your data for this 98%?
      google.com

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By MkamaP View Post
      Hii nilikuwa sijui, kumbe walioa/olewa hadi leo wanaruhusiwa kuwa na Dual, that good stuff.
      Mzee sio hivyo! Katiba yetu haiko GENDER SENSITIVE. Ni kwamba Wanawake wote waliolewa na wanaume Watanzania wanaruhusiwa kuwa na dual citizenship kama nchi zao za kuzaliwa zinaruhusu dual citizenship. Mfano Mwanamke Mmarekani aliyeolewa na mwanaume Mtanzania anaruhusiwa kuwa na dual citizenship yaani uraia wa Marekani na Uraia wa Tanzania.

      Lakini ni Kinyume pale mwanamke mtanzania anapoolewa na mwanaume asiye Mtanzania (Huyu mwanamke anaishi Tanzania na ni Mtazania wa kuzaliwa). Mfano Mwanamke Mtanzania akiolewa na mwanaume Mmarekani, ili mwanaume huyo apate URAIA wa Tanzania inabidi afanye mambo mawili, kwanza aombe uraia wa Tanzania (naturalization), pili kwakuwa Tanzania haturusu dual citizenship huyo mwanaume mmarekani inabidi pia AUKANE URAIA wa Marekani.

      You can see why I'm saying our constitution is not GENDER SENSITIVE
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      Quote By Bobuk View Post
      Mzee sio hivyo! Katiba yetu haiko GENDER SENSITIVE. Ni kwamba Wanawake wote waliolewa na wanaume Watanzania wanaruhusiwa kuwa na dual citizenship kama nchi zao za kuzaliwa zinaruhusu dual citizenship. Mfano Mwanamke Mmarekani aliyeolewa na mwanaume Mtanzania anaruhusiwa kuwa na dual citizenship yaani uraia wa Marekani na Uraia wa Tanzania.

      Lakini ni Kinyume pale mwanamke mtanzania anapoolewa na mwanaume asiye Mtanzania (Huyu mwanamke anaishi Tanzania na ni Mtazania wa kuzaliwa). Mfano Mwanamke Mtanzania akiolewa na mwanaume Mmarekani, ili mwanaume huyo apate URAIA wa Tanzania inabidi afanye mambo mawili, kwanza aombe uraia wa Tanzania (naturalization), pili kwakuwa Tanzania haturusu dual citizenship huyo mwanaume mmarekani inabidi pia AUKANE URAIA wa Marekani.

      You can see why I'm saying our constitution is not GENDER SENSITIVE
      Mkuu wangu
      Hii katiba mbona inanichanganya sasa, naomba nielewe hapa, kwa hiyo Mtanzania mwanamume aliyeoa haruhusiwi kuwa na Dual ila mkewe ndo anaruhusiwa kuwa na dual? Ama hapo imekaa je?

      Kwa mwanmke hapo nimekupata. Kama ni hivyo, katiba hii inapingana na haki za binadamu.

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      GAD ONEYA
      The answer is yes

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      TUKUTUKU
      Una ushahidi gani kua sheikh ponda ni raia wa Afghanistan???

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      CHAM
      Tiririka nyerere alitumia sababu gani kukataa dual citizenship?

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      BOBUK
      We umeishatoa maoni yako kwenye tume ya katiba?

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      MKAMAP

      Kati ya wote waliotoa maoni, hoja zako zimenipa food for thought..kwamba iwapo mtu ni Raia wa US ma pia Raia wa TZ je US na TZ zikiwa vitani mtu utakua upande gani iwapo una dual nationality? Hii kali

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By MkamaP View Post
      Mkuu wangu
      Hii katiba mbona inanichanganya sasa, naomba nielewe hapa, kwa hiyo Mtanzania mwanamume aliyeoa haruhusiwi kuwa na Dual ila mkewe ndo anaruhusiwa kuwa na dual? Ama hapo imekaa je?
      Kwa mwanmke hapo nimekupata. Kama ni hivyo, katiba hii inapingana na haki za binadamu.
      Mtanzania Mwanaume mwenye Uraia wa Tanzania aliyeoa mwanamke foreigner haruhusiwi kuwa na dual citizenship kwasababu Tanzania hairuhusu dual citizenship, EXCEPT kwa makundi haya mawili. Kwanza watanzania ambao hawajafikisha umri wa miaka 18 na Pili kwa WANAWAKE foreigners ambao wameolewa na raia wa Tanzania.

      Hii ndiyo katiba yetu haiko gender sensitive
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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must


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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      Quote By Gad ONEYA View Post
      What is source of your data for this 98%?
      Out of 190 or so UN members, only about 40 allow dual citizenship. -(The Economics Times)

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      Quote By takashi View Post
      The poor mind sets, always ready to embrace the negatives...
      Reasonable people can disagree and one of the reasons we want to have a discussion is to get issues out of this matter in the open so people can talk about them. Otherwise I can argue that people with dual citizenship, their loyalties are always misdirected!

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      Default Re: The right to dual citizenship in Tanzania is a must

      mi nahisi mkama p yupo sawa kabisa ilivyoandikwa kubadili uraia kwa sababu ya kuoa haita adhiri uraia wako ,

      na hii sio KATIBA ni sheria ya uraia Tanzania Citizenship Act 1995 nahisi mtaalamu galiya ka edit kipengele cha ,sheria kipo hivi kama kilivyo kutoka kwa sheria



      (4) A citizen of the United Republic shall cease to be a citizen it(a) having attained the age of eighteen years, he acquired the citizenship
      of some country other than the United Republic by a voluntary

      act other than marriage;

      SIO S. 7(4) provides"Any Citizen of Tanzania shall cease to be a citizen if having attained the age of 18 years, he acquires the citizenship of some country other than Tanzania by a voluntary act other than marriage".

      na ukiangalia kwa kiingereza cha nkawaida hii section imelenga zaidi wanaume,ndo maana wametumia zaidi HE akina mama wamepewa section 5 ambayo inawakandamiza kiaina

      Ila ukienda kwa watendaji wizarani wanajifanya hawajui kiingereza watakuambia tu kuwa "dual citizeship haikubaliki tanzania" kuhusu akina mama na section 5 Wamesema kabisa woman


      (5) Notwithstanding any other provisions of this Act, a person whoattains the age of eighteen years, or who, being a woman, is or has been
      married shall not, if that person is a citizen of some country other than
      the United Republic, be entitled to be naturalised as a citizen of the
      United Republic unless he renounces the citizenship of that other country,
      takes the oath of allegiance and makes and registers a declaration
      prescribed by Parliament regarding his intention as to residence.

      Sa sa utaona akina mama wanaonewa na sheria wao wanatakiwa declaration bila hivyo sio raia wa tanzania

      Hayo ni mawazo yangu tu kama kuna mwingine anaweza kuchangia hilo
      Last edited by maskin; 28th November 2012 at 18:12.

    23. #160
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      Quote By galiya View Post
      The Tanzania citizenship is governed by the Citizenship Act, 1995. This Act proscribes the right to dual citizenship. S. 7(4) provides"Any Citizen of Tanzania shall cease to be a citizen if having attained the age of 18 years, he acquires the citizenshp of some country other than Tanzania by a voluntary act other than marriage".
      Good. And it should remain like that. Your citizenship ceases when you opt for another nation's citizenship.

      Quote By galiya View Post
      The Tanzanian Constitution, 1977 unlike Constitutions of other countries eg Kenya and Uganda, is silent on the right to dual citizenship. Generally, citizenship in our Constitution is merely mentioned en passant.
      Is it necessary for our constitution to have similar agendas like Kenya's and Uganda's constitutions?!
      It is not necessary.

      Quote By galiya View Post
      A significant number of Tanzanians are now living abroad and are scattered all over the world. They are now commonly known as THE DIASPORA COMMUNITY. Mean estimate is putting the number of Tanzanians in Diaspora at 2Million. This group, thus, account for 5% of our total population. This is an important constituency which has to be represented in the new constitution, in my humble view.
      Who came up with such a number? Reference please!!
      They might be doctored statistics to suit the 'diaspora's quest and interest'

      In addition, I see no humbleness with the title of this thread!!

      Quote By galiya View Post
      There are many factors obtaining in Tanzania which have contributed to the exodus of skilled talent. They include poor conditions of service, potential human rights abuses, nepotism and favoratism, disregard for local talent, scarcirty of jobs, poor salaries, limited access to education, the 2001 Zanzibar chaos etc.
      Good. But do these factors compel you into throwing your citizenship into a trash-bin? How about using such factors as driving forces for you to acquire extra skills abroad, and then come back to join hands in removing those pushy factors?

      Quote By galiya View Post
      At the beginning, the issue of citizenship was resented but now it was beginning to be understood.
      Who said so? What makes you see that the issue is now being understood? I still resent the issue; I see no valid arguments for its acceptance in TZ.

      Quote By galiya View Post
      Tanzania has been benefitting from people living abroad through remittances. Apart from that Tanzanians living abroad have different professions and are experienced in several sectors of the economy, hence they would make immense contribution if they came back to work here. Some of them command respect the world over hence if properly utilized they could greatly contribute to their mother country development.
      Provision of remittances does not necessarily require someone to have dual citizenship. I have been getting remittances from relatives and friends who are still Tanzanians!!

      Quote By galiya View Post
      The role of the Tanzanian Diaspora community has been, inter aia, to provide socio-economic support for some Tanzanians back home. Due to the extended family system, most of Tanzanians living abroad find themselves being regarded as crucial breadwinners of not only their immediate families but also their close family relatives. They normally pay for most of the financial needs of their dependants back at home such as medical and education fees, accommodations rentals and social events such as religious gatherings, funerals, birthday and wedding parties.
      Good. These can still be done without the need for a dual citizenship!!

      Quote By galiya View Post
      in 2006, the Law Reform Commission of TZ under the Chairmanship of Judge A. Bahati recommended introduction of Dual Citizenship. The Commission stated that the issue deserved " a possitive and foward- looking consideration and that it was high time Tanzania adopted dual citizenship because in a globalized world, the country could not develop without interraction with other nations".
      Really? Could you provide examples of countries that have developed right after dual citizenship was adopted?
      Could you also share with me the commission's report?


      Quote By galiya View Post
      More importantly, many developing nations such as Ghana have made significant economic strides after allowing dual citizenship a few years ago.
      Oh! I see. Reference please!


      Quote By galiya View Post
      Furthermore, Hon. B. Membe, for Foreign Affairs, a distingushed Diplomat stated the following in the National Assembly when responding to a question from one Vicky Kamata (CCM)
      "African countries have been benefitting from people living abroad through remittances. For the past year, a total of USD 40 Billion entered Africa through remittances out of which Tanzania received USD 250M.
      We are creating a good environment that will enable Tanzanians living abroad work in the country. We recognise them and respect their contribution to the country economic development. In the newly launched 5 year development plan (2011-2015) the issue of Diaspora has been highlighted and given priority. This dual citizenship issue will also be included in the Constitutional debate..."
      An answer from Membe?? I see vested interests!! He always gets bougie when he talks about dual citizenship.

      "Tanzania received USD 250 million". Really??
      Damn! That is a loot of grain.

      He should have explained further on how the money has trickled down and boosted the economy.

      "The issue will be included in a constitutional debate".
      Really? Can people in Ubaruku suggest for a dual citizenship? Will it help to alleviate their poverty?
      No it won't.

      But it will help the few elites to serve their interests.

      Quote By galiya View Post
      Thus, in my view, Dual citizenship MUST be enshrined in our new Constitution.

      Great Thinkers, hii imekaaje?
      You are entitled to air your views. However, you are not entitled to come with such an authoritative conclusion.

      Haijakaa vizuri aisee.
      EMT likes this.

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