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    1. WomanOfSubstance's Avatar
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      Default "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Naanza na kutoa Pole kwa watanzania wote, hasa ndugu jamaa na marafiki wa karibu wa Kanumba The Great (R.I.P) kabla sijatoa mchango wangu kuhusu hili jambo zito na nyeti ambalo limetawala maongezi katika kipindi hiki cha Sikukuu ya Pasaka. Mengi yamesemwa na pia kuna mengi pia hayajasemwa, moja wapo likiwa "ujinai" wa Lulu katika kifo cha Kanumba.

      Katika mukatadha wa sheria, tunaona kwamba Tanzania ni moja ya nchi zenye kuuweka uwajibikaji kijinai kuwa chini ya UMRI wa miaka 18 kwa kuweka miaka 10 kama umri ambapo mtu anaweza kushtakiwa kwa kosa la jinai. (Linganisha na Kenya miaka 8, Zimbabwe -7,Zambia 8,Africa Kusini 10) n.k. Ina maana kwamba mtu (mtoto) aliye chini ya umri huu hawezi kushtakiwa labda ithibitishwe kuwa alikua anajua kabisa anachokifanya. Lulu hafit kwenye kundi hili hata kama ana umri wa miaka 17 kama ambavyo Mh Halima Mdee ame tweet leo baada ya kumtembelea LuLU Oysterbay Polisi.

      Tukiacha sheria na matakwa yake, kwa kuzingatia yale yanayosemwa kuhusu mkasa huu wa kifo cha Kanumba (R.I.P), inatupasa tuone kuwa kila hadithi ina pande mbili. Hadithi ya Kanumba ambaye kwa sasa hayupo kuelezea, na hadithi ya Lulu aliye mahabusu. Inasikitisha sana kwamba kifo kimetokea katika mazingira ya kutatanisha. Kifo hiki kimesikitisha watu wengi na kufanya udadisi wa kutaka kujua ukweli ulio objective iwe vigumu. Watu wamebakia kushusha lawama ZOTE kwa Lulu tu bila kutaka kujua haswa ilitokea nini hadi kifo hicho kikatokea.

      Kama watanzania wengine napenda niseme kwamba , nahuzunika kama wengine kumpoteza Kanumba na pia kuona ndoto zake kama msanii zikizimwa ghafla. Aidha wapenzi wake wamekatishwa ile raha ya kuendelea kuburidika na filamu zake. Pamoja kuwa na huzuni kuu, pia najaribu kuangalia upande wa pili – Lulu! Huyu binti wa miaka 17/18 kijamii bado ni msichana mdogo japo kisheria hasamehewi kuwajibishwa kijinai. Lakini uwajibishwaji huo utakuja pale upelelezi utakapokamilika. Kufuatana na waliobahatika kumuona huyu binti, ana majeraha kuashiria kuwa alipigwa na kuumizwa na marehemu. Ingekuwa marehemu hakufa, basi nadhani kesi hii ingekuwa ya aina yake kama ingefika kunakohusika. Wote walijeruhiana. Lakini mazingira ya kujeruhi huko ni yepi?

      Tumeambiwa na hata kusoma kwamba:

      1. Lulu alienda kwa Kanumba usiku mkali mishale ya saa 6, kusudi watoke kwenda kucheza muziki kwa msanii Chaz baba – Mashujaa band ( Kanumba alishapiga simu kutaka andaliwe viti na sehemu maalum ya kukaa yeye na marafiki zake na pia akiomba hata wimbo maalum atakapofika)
      2. Lulu alitoka nje kusikiliza simu – Kanumba akamfuata na kumrudisha ndani ili aeleze anaongea na nani.( Hapa tunaona kabisa Kanumba akianzisha shari yeye mwenyewe badala ya kuepuka shari)
      3. Kanumba alimfungia Lulu ndani wakawa wanagombana. Aggressor hapa ni Kanumba na siyo Lulu.Kelele za ugomvi ziliashiria vurugu na kwa vile mlango ulifungwa na ufunguo, ilikuwa vigumu Lulu kukimbia tena au hata watu nje kuja kutoa msaada.
      4. Lulu alitoka nje kwenda kumwita Seth na kumwambia Kanumba kaanguka.Lulu alikimbia akiwa na majeraha.Hii haionyeshi kuwa Lulu aliua vinginevyo angetoka kimya kimya akatokomea.

      Sasa ndugu zanguni, kwanini Lulu anaonekana alifanya mauaji ya kukusudia? Ikiwa Kanumba alianguka katika purukushani na kuponda kichwa na kufa, Lulu kaua vipi? Kukamatwa na polisi na kushikiliwa ili kusaidia uchunguzi ni utaratibu wa kawaida sana. Nimewahi kushuhudia mtu kajiua, ndugu yake na mkewe waliomgundua kajining’iniza walikamatwa wakakaa ndani ili wasaidie uchunguzi Ilahali mtu kajiua mwenyewe. Ilisikitisha sana kwa maana wafiwa walitiwa misukosuko kwa kifo ambacho marehemu alijiletea kwa kujitundika. Walikaa masaa kadhaa kabla ya ndugu kwenda kuwatetea na kushinikiza waachiwe!

      Kwenye hii kesi ya Lulu, bahati mbaya sana Lulu ana sifa mbaya kwenye jamii kiasi kwamba hakuna mtu anathubutu kumtetea na kumsaidia angalau aweze kujipanga kukabiliana na siku za kusubiri hatma baada ya upelelezi. Kibaya zaidi kuna statements za watu wazito ndani ya jamii, statements ambazo zenyewe tu zimeshapasisha kwamba Lulu ndio muuaji. Kibaya zaidi, unyeti wa hali inayozunguka msanii maarufu kipenzi cha wengi utaathiri hata mwenendo mzima wa upelelezi na kitakachojiri to the detriment of Lulu.

      Nadhani kwa vile hii haijawa kesi ya kimahakama, na kwa vile jamii inazungumzia hiki kifo, hakuna ubaya tukawa na scenario zote.

      Sijaandika haya kwa vile nataka kumsemea Lulu asiwajibike kama anahusika kijinai bali najaribu kupanua mjadala.

      Nawasilisha.
      WoS.
      Educating the mind without educating the heart is no education at all.... Aristotle




    2. Nyani Ngabu's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By Hute View Post
      kila kesi huwa inaamuliwa kulingana na facts zake. hapa naongelea watu kugombana tu kwa kawaida kwa kutumia ngumi tu na sio silaha. kama hiyo premeditated malice aforethought (intention to cause death)kweli ilikuwepo, na ukathibitisha kwamba ilikuwepo, basi inaweza kuwa murder, ila kila kesi huamuliwa kwa facts zake. vilevile katika kesi za murder, aina ya silaha iliyotumika, eneo ambalo mtu ame attack, na mazingira mbalimbali ya kabla na baada ya kufanya tukio vyote hivi huwasaidia majaji kutathimini kama ni murder au manslaughter au kuachiwa kabisa.muunganiko wa vitu hivi pia vyaweza kufanya mnyororo wa ushahidi unaoweza kueleza kama mshitakiwa alikuwa na nia ya kuua au la. kwahiyo kwa sali lako, naweza sema not always, ila kila kesi huamuliwa kwa facts zake.

      however, kumbuka hapa tunaongelea wapenzi hawa wawili kanumba na lulu. kwa hiyo unataka kusema lulu alikuwa na nia ya kumpiga kanumba hadi amuue, kwahiyo alianzisha ugomvi kama chambo? is that what you wanted to say, kwasababu hapa tunaongelea topic ya lulu ujue.
      Hivi kesi za mauaji kwa Tanzania huamuliwa na wana-baraza (jurors) au majaji?
      Miafrika Ndivyo Tulivyo.

    3. SMU's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By Hute View Post
      kila kesi huwa inaamuliwa kulingana na facts zake. .... kwahiyo kwa swali lako, naweza sema not always, ila kila kesi huamuliwa kwa facts zake....
      Hute, this is what I wanted to 'hear' from you. Kwenye post yako umesema 'always' kitu ambacho akili yangu ilikuwa inakataa kukipokea! Pamoja mkuu.

      Quote By Hute View Post
      ..... kwa hiyo unataka kusema lulu alikuwa na nia ya kumpiga kanumba hadi amuue, kwahiyo alianzisha ugomvi kama chambo? is that what you wanted to say, kwasababu hapa tunaongelea topic ya lulu ujue.
      Noupe! Mimi na wewe sote hatujui kwa uhakika hasa kilichotokea katika kadhia hii...na polisi wetu ndio hivyo tena! Lakini kama ni maoni yangu, mimi nasema that is a possibility but I would add...it is very unlikely. Lakini wachunguzi (polisi) wanapaswa kuangalia mambo yote haya especially kama matokeo uchunguzi/ushahidi wa awali hau exclude hizi possibilities nyingine.
      "Rather than love, than money, than fame, give me truth" ----Thoreau

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Nafikiri swala la msingi hapa kama sio sekondari ni kupata kwanza maelezo walio yatoa kule police hawa 2suspect then ndio tunaweza kupata angalau ka picha ilikuwa nini......

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Hapa naona mnasahau mchango wa Jack Daniels. Aidha wote walikua bwii au marehemu peke yake. Pombe inapoteza stability, unaweza anguka bila kuguswa na ukiangukia kitu kibaya ukapata madhara.
      Halafu pombe kali hupandisha presha kidogo wakati unakunywa. Sasa ukioga muda huohuo mwili unapoa na presha inaweza shuka ghafla, ndio maana unasikia wanywa pombe kali kibao washaanguka bafuni wenyewe tu, wengine na mauti zikawakuta.

      Mimi nafikiri pombe ikizidi tu, wala si binti Lulu. Ni bahati mbaya tu kuwa Lulu alikua nae

    6. pierre peter's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      dah! ukweli wa yaliyotekea wanaojua ni lulu na marehemu, hiv lulu anaweza akamboda lulu?

    7. Kansime

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Yawezekana kabisa kulikuwa na syndicate katika mauaji hayo. Mawasiliano ya simu kabla ya kifo ndio mzizi wa kuanzia uchunguzi wa mauaji, forensic yaweza kufanyika hata kama kumekuwa na ujio wa watu wengi. Kwa kuwa kifo kilitokea chumbani nadhani idadi ya watu walioingia chumbani sio kubwa na wanajulikana walioingia mwanzo

    9. Karata's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By sosoliso View Post
      Nimejaribu ku-google kuhusu brain concussion na kusoma maelezo yake.. Bado ninashindwa kuyaelewa haya maelezo ya madaktari wetu.. Unaweza kupata brain concussion and yet usiwe na alama au uvimbe maeneo ya kichwani..? Pitia tovuti hizi mbili hapa chini..

      Brain Concussion Causes, Types, Symptoms, Diagnosis, Treatment, and Prevention Information on MedicineNet.com#
      Concussions & Brain Injuries Pictures Slideshow: Symptoms, Test & Treatment on MedicineNet#
      Wahandishi wa kibongo ni makanjanja siku zote, kwani ukuona walivyochemka walipojaribu kueleza ugonjwa wa Mwakyembe! Eti Kanumba kafa kwasababu ya Brain Concussion! shame on them!

    10. Fixed Point's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      mimi naomba kitu kimoja tu.
      kama kweli WOS et al mnampenda huyu mtoto, mwacheni aseme ukweli......... aseme kila kitu ambacho kilitokea siku ile ambapo yeye tu anajua. kwa kufanya hivyo itamsaidia sana, hata kama atahukumiwa adhabu gani, hatakumbwa na guilty consciousness ambacho ni kitu kibaya sana kwa maisha yake yaliyosalia.
      kama tunavyoaminishwa kuwa bado ni mtoto mdogo, apewe chance ya kutubu ili hata kama atatetewa na kuwa huru atajua kuwa alisema ukweli na ukweli wake umemuweka huru.
      Ila nashangaa kitu kimoja; wakati lulu alifanya ile party ya kutimiza miaka 18 na vyombo vingi sana vya habari kuandika kuhusu party hiyo hakuna ambaye alitoka mbele kupinga kuwa Lulu hajatimiza miaka 18............ hii ya leo imetokea wapi?
      Don't wait for the Perfect Moment,
      Take the Moment and make it Perfect


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      Quote By WomanOfSubstance View Post
      Naanza na kutoa Pole kwa watanzania wote, hasa ndugu jamaa na marafiki wa karibu wa Kanumba The Great (R.I.P) kabla sijatoa mchango wangu kuhusu hili jambo zito na nyeti ambalo limetawala maongezi katika kipindi hiki cha Sikukuu ya Pasaka. Mengi yamesemwa na pia kuna mengi pia hayajasemwa, moja wapo likiwa "ujinai" wa Lulu katika kifo cha Kanumba.

      Katika mukatadha wa sheria, tunaona kwamba Tanzania ni moja ya nchi zenye kuuweka uwajibikaji kijinai kuwa chini ya UMRI wa miaka 18 kwa kuweka miaka 10 kama umri ambapo mtu anaweza kushtakiwa kwa kosa la jinai. (Linganisha na Kenya miaka 8, Zimbabwe -7,Zambia 8,Africa Kusini 10) n.k. Ina maana kwamba mtu (mtoto) aliye chini ya umri huu hawezi kushtakiwa labda ithibitishwe kuwa alikua anajua kabisa anachokifanya. Lulu hafit kwenye kundi hili hata kama ana umri wa miaka 17 kama ambavyo Mh Halima Mdee ame tweet leo baada ya kumtembelea LuLU Oysterbay Polisi.

      Tukiacha sheria na matakwa yake, kwa kuzingatia yale yanayosemwa kuhusu mkasa huu wa kifo cha Kanumba (R.I.P), inatupasa tuone kuwa kila hadithi ina pande mbili. Hadithi ya Kanumba ambaye kwa sasa hayupo kuelezea, na hadithi ya Lulu aliye mahabusu. Inasikitisha sana kwamba kifo kimetokea katika mazingira ya kutatanisha. Kifo hiki kimesikitisha watu wengi na kufanya udadisi wa kutaka kujua ukweli ulio objective iwe vigumu. Watu wamebakia kushusha lawama ZOTE kwa Lulu tu bila kutaka kujua haswa ilitokea nini hadi kifo hicho kikatokea.

      Kama watanzania wengine napenda niseme kwamba , nahuzunika kama wengine kumpoteza Kanumba na pia kuona ndoto zake kama msanii zikizimwa ghafla. Aidha wapenzi wake wamekatishwa ile raha ya kuendelea kuburidika na filamu zake. Pamoja kuwa na huzuni kuu, pia najaribu kuangalia upande wa pili – Lulu! Huyu binti wa miaka 17/18 kijamii bado ni msichana mdogo japo kisheria hasamehewi kuwajibishwa kijinai. Lakini uwajibishwaji huo utakuja pale upelelezi utakapokamilika. Kufuatana na waliobahatika kumuona huyu binti, ana majeraha kuashiria kuwa alipigwa na kuumizwa na marehemu. Ingekuwa marehemu hakufa, basi nadhani kesi hii ingekuwa ya aina yake kama ingefika kunakohusika. Wote walijeruhiana. Lakini mazingira ya kujeruhi huko ni yepi?

      Tumeambiwa na hata kusoma kwamba:

      1. Lulu alienda kwa Kanumba usiku mkali mishale ya saa 6, kusudi watoke kwenda kucheza muziki kwa msanii Chaz baba – Mashujaa band ( Kanumba alishapiga simu kutaka andaliwe viti na sehemu maalum ya kukaa yeye na marafiki zake na pia akiomba hata wimbo maalum atakapofika)
      2. Lulu alitoka nje kusikiliza simu – Kanumba akamfuata na kumrudisha ndani ili aeleze anaongea na nani.( Hapa tunaona kabisa Kanumba akianzisha shari yeye mwenyewe badala ya kuepuka shari)
      3. Kanumba alimfungia Lulu ndani wakawa wanagombana. Aggressor hapa ni Kanumba na siyo Lulu.Kelele za ugomvi ziliashiria vurugu na kwa vile mlango ulifungwa na ufunguo, ilikuwa vigumu Lulu kukimbia tena au hata watu nje kuja kutoa msaada.
      4. Lulu alitoka nje kwenda kumwita Seth na kumwambia Kanumba kaanguka.Lulu alikimbia akiwa na majeraha.Hii haionyeshi kuwa Lulu aliua vinginevyo angetoka kimya kimya akatokomea.

      Sasa ndugu zanguni, kwanini Lulu anaonekana alifanya mauaji ya kukusudia? Ikiwa Kanumba alianguka katika purukushani na kuponda kichwa na kufa, Lulu kaua vipi? Kukamatwa na polisi na kushikiliwa ili kusaidia uchunguzi ni utaratibu wa kawaida sana. Nimewahi kushuhudia mtu kajiua, ndugu yake na mkewe waliomgundua kajining’iniza walikamatwa wakakaa ndani ili wasaidie uchunguzi Ilahali mtu kajiua mwenyewe. Ilisikitisha sana kwa maana wafiwa walitiwa misukosuko kwa kifo ambacho marehemu alijiletea kwa kujitundika. Walikaa masaa kadhaa kabla ya ndugu kwenda kuwatetea na kushinikiza waachiwe!

      Kwenye hii kesi ya Lulu, bahati mbaya sana Lulu ana sifa mbaya kwenye jamii kiasi kwamba hakuna mtu anathubutu kumtetea na kumsaidia angalau aweze kujipanga kukabiliana na siku za kusubiri hatma baada ya upelelezi. Kibaya zaidi kuna statements za watu wazito ndani ya jamii, statements ambazo zenyewe tu zimeshapasisha kwamba Lulu ndio muuaji. Kibaya zaidi, unyeti wa hali inayozunguka msanii maarufu kipenzi cha wengi utaathiri hata mwenendo mzima wa upelelezi na kitakachojiri to the detriment of Lulu.

      Nadhani kwa vile hii haijawa kesi ya kimahakama, na kwa vile jamii inazungumzia hiki kifo, hakuna ubaya tukawa na scenario zote.

      Sijaandika haya kwa vile nataka kumsemea Lulu asiwajibike kama anahusika kijinai bali najaribu kupanua mjadala.

      Nawasilisha.
      WoS.


      Kaka umenigusa sana nimeshakaribia gombana na marafiki zangu juu ya Lulu, tumwache mahakama ifanye uchunguzi na naimani She is innocent kwani hajampa sumu labda katika kujiokoa ikawa vile. Mungu Atampigania kwani yeye ndo mpanga tarehe.

    12. EMT's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By Hute View Post
      mkuu unachotakiwa kuelewa ni kwamba, katika kesi yeyote ukiona kuna mazingira ya kupigana, basi hiyo huenda moja kwa moja kwenye manslaughter. Hapa sisi sote hatuna facts, facts zipo kule polisi,bado wanafanya utafiti. tunachoongelea hapa, ni kutokana na yale tu yaliyoongelewa juu juu.

      Kuhusiana na hiyo principle of causation, usiumize sana kichwa, nimeandika opinion nyingi sana nikiwa state attorney, katika kesi hizi hizi za murder. zipo Court of Appeal case law zinazosema death resulting as a result of a fight will always endup to a lesser offence of manslaughter, na sio murder. hapa tunachoongelea kwa huyu dada ni murder or manslaughter tu, kwani kosa gani lingine unafikiri atashitakiwa katika homicide kama hii? only either of the two, na ndizo tunazozijadili. .................., pamoja na ile whisky na soda, so vikienda kwa mkemia mkuu watatoa jibu zuri kama alilishwa sumu, etc, hapo ndo labda uyu mtoto anaweza kuwa kwenye mazingira ya kwenda kwenye murder, lakini kama walikuwa katika ugomvi akamuua, moja kwa moja ni manslaughter.
      Mkuu pamoja na hayo still anawezekana asikutwe na hatia yoyote. Ndiyo maana naepuka kabisa kufanya majumuisho kuwa kuna options mbili tuu za yeye kuwa guilty for murder or manslaughter simply because sijui hata kama she was the one who caused the death both in fact and in law.

      Kweli zipo kesi kibao tuu zinazosema kuwa zinazosema death resulting from a fight will always end up to a lesser offence of manslaughter, na sio murder. Lakini kweli tuna uhakika kuwa the death was the result of a fight? Even if it was a fight, what if akisema alikuwa anaji-defend herself? Bado atakuwa convicted of manslaughter?

      Kwa nini tufanye assumption kuwa katika kesi yeyote ukiona kuna mazingira ya kupigana, basi hiyo huenda moja kwa moja kwenye manslaughter? Why? Una maana mtu hawezi kupigana with malice aforethought to cause GBH au kifo? Pamoja na hiyo case law still each case should be decided based on its own facts and circumstances.

      Naamini kabisa kuwa hata hao polisi hawachunguzi tuu kama ashtakiwe for murder or manslaughter. Naamini kabisa kuwa wanachunguza kujua if she actually caused the death. Wanatafuta ushahidi wa aina yoyote wa kuonyesha kuwa yeye ndio aliyesababisha hicho kifo. Hata kama wakikuta facts and evidence showing that she, in fact, caused the death bado kuna umuhimu mkubwa wa ku-establish whether she caused the death in law as well.

      Kuna watu wengi wako magerezani wameshitakiwa for either murder or manslaughter but they did not cause the death either in fact or in law. Pia wapo wengi ambao walishatakiwa for either manslaughter or murder but the court found them not guilty though kama uchunguzi makini ungefanyika ingejulikana kuwa they actually caused the death both in law and in fact.

      Kwa hiyo, naona tuache ku-jump na kufanya majumuisho ya manslaughter and murder tena tuu kwa ku-base on speculations that it was a fight which might have resulted the death. Who knows, she might not even be guilty for the death. Kwenye homicide cases kama hii, the first issue is DID SHE CAUSE THE DEATH BOTH IN FACT AND IN LAW?

      Kwa sasa she is innocent until proven guilty. Lakini unaposema kwamba "katika kesi yeyote ukiona kuna mazingira ya kupigana, basi hiyo huenda moja kwa moja kwenye manslaughter" ni sawa na kusema she is guilty of manslaughter until proved otherwise.
      Last edited by EMT; 10th April 2012 at 21:09.
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By namala View Post
      Kaka umenigusa sana nimeshakaribia gombana na marafiki zangu juu ya Lulu.....
      Soma vizuri jina la mleta mada!
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      Save Water Drink Beer. "Alcohol doesn't solve any problem,
      But, if you think again, neither does milk."
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Lulu ajauwa acha uzushi!

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      WATANZANIA ACHENI UZUSHI ACHENI POLISI WATOE TAMKO JUU YA KIFO CHA KANUMBA! ohhh unasikia mara lulu kauwa wapi na nani kasema!

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By Kibunango View Post
      Soma vizuri jina la mleta mada!
      Labda bado ana ile kasumba ya kwenye sheria kuwa "she" means "he"?
      Kibunango likes this.
      Poverty makes people do reckless things, but rich people do worse to protect their bling – Immortal technique

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By Limbani View Post
      Hata kama Lulu aliua basi ni kwa bahati mbaya wakati akijitahidi kuepuka kipigo au kujihami asiuliwe/kujeruhiwa yeye yaani Self-Defense, hivyo bado ana nafasi ya hata kuwa huru akipata wakili mzuri na kuthibitisha motives was Self defense au kupata adhabu ndogo ya manslaughter (kuua bila kukusudia). Motive ya murder in first degree(kukusudia) haipo kabisa hapo.
      that makes some sense..
      If your strength is small, do not carry heavy burdens.

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Hili suala zito sana...ila walau umetupa kitu....
      Thank let us wait
      Kujipenda ni Pamoja na Kuutunza Mwili wako!
      Acha Ngono,UKIMWI unaua!

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Kanumba kauliwa na jini mahaba

    20. Hute's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By EMT View Post
      Mkuu pamoja na hayo still anawezekana asikutwe na hatia yoyote. Ndiyo maana naepuka kabisa kufanya majumuisho kuwa kuna options mbili tuu za yeye kuwa guilty for murder or manslaughter simply because sijui hata kama she was the one who caused the death both in fact and in law.

      Kweli zipo kesi kibao tuu zinazosema kuwa zinazosema death resulting from a fight will always end up to a lesser offence of manslaughter, na sio murder. Lakini kweli tuna uhakika kuwa the death was the result of a fight? Even if it was a fight, what if akisema alikuwa anaji-defend herself? Bado atakuwa convicted of manslaughter?

      Kwa nini tufanye assumption kuwa katika kesi yeyote ukiona kuna mazingira ya kupigana, basi hiyo huenda moja kwa moja kwenye manslaughter? Why? Una maana mtu hawezi kupigana with malice aforethought to cause GBH au kifo? Pamoja na hiyo case law still each case should be decided based on its own facts and circumstances.

      Naamini kabisa kuwa hata hao polisi hawachunguzi tuu kama ashtakiwe for murder or manslaughter. Naamini kabisa kuwa wanachunguza kujua if she actually caused the death. Wanatafuta ushahidi wa aina yoyote wa kuonyesha kuwa yeye ndio aliyesababisha hicho kifo. Hata kama wakikuta facts and evidence showing that she, in fact, caused the death bado kuna umuhimu mkubwa wa ku-establish whether she caused the death in law as well.

      Kuna watu wengi wako magerezani wameshitakiwa for either murder or manslaughter but they did not cause the death either in fact or in law. Pia wapo wengi ambao walishatakiwa for either manslaughter or murder but the court found them not guilty though kama uchunguzi makini ungefanyika ingejulikana kuwa they actually caused the death both in law and in fact.

      Kwa hiyo, naona tuache ku-jump na kufanya majumuisho ya manslaughter and murder tena tuu kwa ku-base on speculations that it was a fight which might have resulted the death. Who knows, she might not even be guilty for the death. Kwenye homicide cases kama hii, the first issue is DID SHE CAUSE THE DEATH BOTH IN FACT AND IN LAW?

      Kwa sasa she is innocent until proven guilty. Lakini unaposema kwamba "katika kesi yeyote ukiona kuna mazingira ya kupigana, basi hiyo huenda moja kwa moja kwenye manslaughter" ni sawa na kusema she is guilty of manslaughter until proved otherwise.
      you are very right. sema tunaongea tu hatuna facts zozote. bahati nzuri, mimi facts zake nazijua kidogo kwasababu niko kwenye system hiyo hiyo ya usalama na mpelelezi wa jalada hili namjua. kama akifanikiwa katika defence hiyo ya self defence, basi sheria inasema atatakiwa kuwa acquitted. hivyo ataachiwa huru. hii sasa inategemea sana na cautioned statements zile alizoziandika kule polisi, ushahidi wa sethi na mashahidi wengine, postmortem examination report etc. pamoja na kwamba defence hizo kwake harakaharaka kwa sasa inaweza kuwa ngumu sana kufanikiwa, na itamchukua muda mrefu sana kuendelea na kesi ya usikilizwaji, muda ambao kama akija kuplea wakati ametokea mara ya kwanza high court, atapigwa adhabu yake palepale ambayo siyo kubwa kwa manslaughter. i mean kama akija kukubali kuwa kulingana na mzozo huo bahati mbaya mwenzake alidondoka akafa, hivyo hakukusudia kusababisha kifo. na kama atakuwa tayari kuendelea na usikilizwaji (ambao unaweza pia kwenda haraka sana kwasababu naona mashahidi ni wachache sana), akafanikiwa kwa defence ya self defence, basi ataachiwa huru kabisa kabisa.
      EMT likes this.

    21. EMT's Avatar
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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By Hute View Post
      you are very right. sema tunaongea tu hatuna facts zozote. bahati nzuri, mimi facts zake nazijua kidogo kwasababu niko kwenye system hiyo hiyo ya usalama na mpelelezi wa jalada hili namjua. kama akifanikiwa katika defence hiyo ya self defence, basi sheria inasema atatakiwa kuwa acquitted. hivyo ataachiwa huru. hii sasa inategemea sana na cautioned statements zile alizoziandika kule polisi, ushahidi wa sethi na mashahidi wengine, postmortem examination report etc. pamoja na kwamba defence hizo kwake harakaharaka kwa sasa inaweza kuwa ngumu sana kufanikiwa, na itamchukua muda mrefu sana kuendelea na kesi ya usikilizwaji, muda ambao kama akija kuplea wakati ametokea mara ya kwanza high court, atapigwa adhabu yake palepale ambayo siyo kubwa kwa manslaughter. i mean kama akija kukubali kuwa kulingana na mzozo huo bahati mbaya mwenzake alidondoka akafa, hivyo hakukusudia kusababisha kifo. na kama atakuwa tayari kuendelea na usikilizwaji (ambao unaweza pia kwenda haraka sana kwasababu naona mashahidi ni wachache sana), akafanikiwa kwa defence ya self defence, basi ataachiwa huru kabisa kabisa.
      Mkuu still hapo bado naona kama vile bado umeshikilia pale pale. Naamini defenses including self defence huwa zinakuja baada mshtakiwa kukubali kuwa ali-commit hiyo offence lakini alifanya hivyo kujilinda. Kuna umuhimu mkubwa wa kutofautisha kati ya plea of substantive defense and challenges made against factual evidence presented by the prosecution. Ni vitu viwili tofauti.

      Kwa mfano, mtu akishtakiwa kwa assault causing GBH, mshtakiwa anaweza kukataa kuwa hakufanya hivyo by relying on an alibi or kudai kuwa kuna mistake of identify on the prosecution evidence. Hii ni tofauti na pale mshtakiwa anavyokubali kuwa s/he struck the victim but claims that s/he did so because the victim had been about to attack him/her. Hapo ndipo anapokuwa ana-raise the substantive defense of self-defence.

      Wewe kama vile unaongelea plea ya self-defence to challenges against factual evidence presented by the prosecution. Hata kama ulikuwa unamaanisha the plea of substantive self-defense, ni kama vile tayari unakubali the fact that kuwa she actually struck the the victim. Did she? We don't know. Tumeambiwa tuu kulikuwa na arguments kati ya yeye na victim.

      Whether kwenye hizo arguments waligusana to the extent ya kuanza kusukumana au hata kupigana, hatujui. Hata hii fact wanayosema alikimbilia nje, wanamaanisha nini by "nje"? Nje ya chumba, nje ya nyumba, au nje ya geti?

      Mimi bado sijafika hata kwenye stage ya yeye kuraise the substantive defence of self-defense. Bado nipo kwenye preliminary issue ya did she cause the death in fact and in law? The prosecution must show this, ena beyond reasonable doubt. If not, lazima awe acquitted. If so, ndiyo zinakuja issues nyingine za aina ya homicide aliyo-commit and if there are any defenses she can rely on.
      Poverty makes people do reckless things, but rich people do worse to protect their bling – Immortal technique

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      Default Re: "Ujinai" wa Lulu katika "mauaji" ya Kanumba (R.I.P)

      Quote By EMT View Post
      Mkuu still hapo bado naona kama vile bado umeshikilia pale pale. Naamini defenses including self defence huwa zinakuja baada mshtakiwa kukubali kuwa ali-commit hiyo offence lakini alifanya hivyo kujilinda. Kuna umuhimu mkubwa wa kutofautisha kati ya plea of substantive defense and challenges made against factual evidence presented by the prosecution. Ni vitu viwili tofauti.

      Kwa mfano, mtu akishtakiwa kwa assault causing GBH, mshtakiwa anaweza kukataa kuwa hakufanya hivyo by relying on an alibi or kudai kuwa kuna mistake of identify on the prosecution evidence. Hii ni tofauti na pale mshtakiwa anavyokubali kuwa s/he struck the victim but claims that s/he did so because the victim had been about to attack him/her. Hapo ndipo anapokuwa ana-raise the substantive defense of self-defence.

      Wewe kama vile unaongelea plea ya self-defence to challenges against factual evidence presented by the prosecution. Hata kama ulikuwa unamaanisha the plea of substantive self-defense, ni kama vile tayari unakubali the fact that kuwa she actually struck the the victim. Did she? We don't know. Tumeambiwa tuu kulikuwa na arguments kati ya yeye na victim.

      Whether kwenye hizo arguments waligusana to the extent ya kuanza kusukumana au hata kupigana, hatujui. Hata hii fact wanayosema alikimbilia nje, wanamaanisha nini by "nje"? Nje ya chumba, nje ya nyumba, au nje ya geti?

      Mimi bado sijafika hata kwenye stage ya yeye kuraise the substantive defence of self-defense. Bado nipo kwenye preliminary issue ya did she cause the death in fact and in law? The prosecution must show this, ena beyond reasonable doubt. If not, lazima awe acquitted. If so, ndiyo zinakuja issues nyingine za aina ya homicide aliyo-commit and if there are any defenses she can rely on.
      you are right again sir. what i have spoken above actually is based mostly on my experience katika kesi za murder. nilishawahi kuhudhuria na kuwa prosecutor kwenye kesi kadhaa katika kikao cha mahakama kuu. sote kwa sasa hatuwezi sema sana kwasababu jalada halipo mikononi mwetu tukalisoma na kupata picha kamili. sometimes watuhumiwa wengine huwa wanakaa ndani muda mrefu kusubiri upelelezi, hata miaka mitatu, kabla ya kuingia mahakamani, huwa tunaingia kabisa kwa presiding judge,,mimi prosecutor pamoja na defence counsel, tunajadili kwanza ili kuona kama hii kesi inatufaa kuendelea nayo na usikilizwaji na murder au la, kama tunaona usikilizwaji na murder tunaona utachukua muda sana na mazingira kidogo yanadondokea kwenye manslaughter, wakili wa watuhumiwa huwa anaambiwa kabisa akaongee na washitakiwa waje wakubali/plea ya manslaughter, na wanapata adhabu kidogo. ilishawahi kunitokea incident moja, jamaa wawili walikataa ushauri huo, judge akawapa hukuumu ya kunyongwa, hadi leo wanasumbuka na appeal court of appeal hapo. practically, kabla ya kuingia mahakamani, lazima mnakaa na jaji kwanza. hakuna anayependa mtu akanyongwe ati, kama kuna mwanya wa kumponya mtu, anaponywa.

      kwasasa lulu anashitakiwa na murder, wala si manslaughter, upelelezi utaendelea ukikamilika, jalada litapelekwa kwa mawakili wa serikali, wataliandikia opinion na kudraft charge yake. kama akibahatika, kulingana na ushahidi akadraftiwa charge ya manslaughter, basi ataendelea na kosa hilo. so nilipokuwa naongea, kulingana na ushahidi huu wa juu juu tu tulio nao magazetini, nilisema hiyo itakuwa manslaughter kwasababu nilsishaandika sana hizo opinion na charge na hata kupropose nolle prosequi ili incharge wangu ambaye ni mwakilishi wa dpp akubali tuwatoe watu kwa nolle. this is how things work.

      kama kule kwa state attorney's wataona yafaa aendelee na kosa hilohilo la murder, watapropose charge hiyoiyo iendelee. you have to know these stages. POLICE UPELELEZI, OPINION YA STATE ATTORNEYS, CHARGE. hapo ndo atakuwa committed to the high court (hii yote ilikuwa committal proceeding tu hapo subordinate court). tukienda mahakamani, kama kule state attorney walisema aendelee na murder based on the evidence collected, ndo ataanza labda kuleta defences labda ya self defence etc. alibi hawezi kuitaja kwasababu upo ushahidi kuwa alikuwepo pale. anyway, hatuwezi kuongea sana, LAKINI CHA MUHIMU NI KWAMBA, KITAKACHOAMUA HAPA NI MAWAKILI WA SELIKALI HATUJUI WATAAMUA AENDELEE KUJIBU SHITAKA LIPI, akisubiria hiyo anaweza kuspend muda mrefu sana jela.
      EMT likes this.

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