[VoiceOfReason]

"Why do we Kill People who Kill People to Show that Killing People is Wrong ?"

Je ni sawa kuwa na Hukumu ya Kifo?
Baada ya yule Chizi wa Norway kuua kadamnasi ya watu (ukizingatia Norway life Sentence ni limited kwa miaka 21 tu) Je ni muhimu kuwa na hukumu ya kifo? Ni nini hasa faida ya hukumu ya kifo?

Je hukumu ya kifo inafanya watu waogope kutenda maovu kwahiyo ni njia nzuri au ni kuonyesha hata sisi hatuna tofauti na waliofanya hayo maovu?

I can argue kwamba huenda hukumu ya kifo ni adhabu rahisi sababu badala ya kumfanya mtu ku-suffer kwa kosa lake, tunampumzisha...Je sio vema kumfunga mtu maisha na kumfanyisha kazi ngumu kwa maisha yake yaliyobaki na kila alichonacho au atakachokitengeneza kiende kwa wale aliowatenda....

What do you think?.....

[Nyani Ngabu]

Mkuu there is a good reason kwanini polisi hawaruhusiwi kupeleleza kesi zinazowahusu au daktari kumfanyia operation mtu wa karibu sana na yeye..., Sababu hata decision na maamuzi yao yatakuwa calculated na yatakuwa tofauti na ingekuwa otherwise..., Kwahiyo kama sasa hivi naona death penalty haifai takuwa sipo sawa kubadilisha mawazo yangu itakapo-work against me.... Au unaona its okay tuwaachie watu waliotendwa ndio watunge sheria.....?

Inabidi maamuzi yetu yawe regardless kwamba yamenikuta mimi au sio mimi na yasiwe driven by emotions and revenge..,

Ninachosema ni kwamba, pale mtu kitu kinapokukumba si ajabu ukabadili mtazamo wa kitu hicho uliokuwa nao awali kabla ya kukumbwa. Usipinge sana ukweli huu kwa sababu ni kitu kilicho dhahiri kabisa.

Na mimi sitetei maamuzi yanayosukumwa na visasi au hisia lakini nachotetea ni kwamba experience za watu zisipuuzwe pia. Mtu aliyeuliwa mwanae kinyama na wewe ambaye hujauliwa mwanao mnaweza msiongee lugha moja kwa sababu hamna hiyo shared experience. Na kama hamna shared experience wakati mwingine kuelewana inaweza ikawa tabu kidogo. Sijui umenielewa?

[sugi]

adhabu ya kifo ni kanuni ya jino kwa jino,kwamba aliyeua naye auawe,sasa kama ni hivyo!basi aliyeiba naye aibiwe,aliyebaka naye abakwe,je tuandae watu maalumu kwa kazi ya kubaka Wabakaji,kama tulivyoandaa watu maalumu kwa kuua wauaji?mi sioni kama adhabu ya kifo inasaidia!maana kifo ni difensive mechanism ya suffering na boby failure!

[hengo]

Mwl.Nyerere alipitisha adhabu hiyo ya kifo na aliitekeleza ipasavyo.The president was gifted and civilised that is why was accepted wherever the world.I argue let them be killed who kill, the alive we learn the outcomes of killing.

[Chapakazi]

yap ni sawa kuwa na hukumu ya kifo....
(kwa watu kama mafataki na wabakaji)

(ingawa kwa upande wa Dini especially Christianity hairuhusiwi
kumuhukumu mtu)

Hapo pekundu napingana na wewe. Hukumu ya kifo ipo kwenye biblia. Kasome sheria za Musa.

[Chapakazi]

Hukumu ya kifo ni muhimu sana katika jamii.
1. Huwezi kuua kwa kukusudia (premeditated murder) alafu uishie gerezani tu kutumia rasilimali za nchi
2. Kwa degree fulani ninahisi kuwa inapunguza matendo maovu. Kwa mfano, angalia matukio ya treason katika nchi yeyote.
3. Kumuua mtu sio kumpumzisha, ama sivyo kwa nini wewe hujiui hapo? The uncertainty in death is what keeps ppl alive...

[Keren_Happuch]

Hapo pekundu napingana na wewe. Hukumu ya kifo ipo kwenye biblia. Kasome sheria za
Musa.

Baada ya Yesu kuja, hukumu ya kifo ilibatilishwa. Sasa hivi ni mpende adui yako na usilipe ovu kwa ovu...........

[Chapakazi]

Baada ya Yesu kuja, hukumu ya kifo ilibatilishwa. Sasa hivi ni mpende adui yako na usilipe ovu kwa ovu...........

Hukumu ya kifo inakuwa administered by the state na sio individual. Na sio kwa sababu ya kulipa bali ni adhabu ya kosa.
Na pia sio necessarily awe adui wako.

[VoiceOfReason]

Hukumu ya kifo ni muhimu sana katika jamii.
1. Huwezi kuua kwa kukusudia (premeditated murder) alafu uishie gerezani tu kutumia rasilimali za nchi

Sio kweli unaweza ukamfanya mfungwa productive alafu inasemekana kunyongwa ni cost zaidi kuliko kifungo cha maisha

The death penalty is much more expensive than life without parole because the Constitution requires a long and complex judicial process for capital cases. This process is needed in order to ensure that innocent men and woman are not executed for crimes they did not commit, and even with these protections the risk of executing an innocent person can not be completely eliminated. Source Death Penalty*:*The High Cost of the Death Penalty

2. Kwa degree fulani ninahisi kuwa inapunguza matendo maovu. Kwa mfano, angalia matukio ya treason katika nchi yeyote.

Sio kweli
It is not a deterrent; crime rates have not gone down.
In fact, the murder rate in the US is 6 times that of Britain and 5 times that of Australia. Neither country has the DP. Texas has twice the murder rate of Wisconsin, a state that doesn't have the DP. Texas and Oklahoma have historically executed the most number of DR inmates, yet in 2003 their state murder rates increased, and both have murder rates higher than the national average.

3. Kumuua mtu sio kumpumzisha, ama sivyo kwa nini wewe hujiui hapo? The uncertainty in death is what keeps ppl alive...

Wangapi wanajiua kwa kukimbia maisha magumu lakini sijaona mtu anavolunteer kifungo cha maisha na kazi ngumu

[VoiceOfReason]

Hukumu ya kifo inakuwa administered by the state na sio individual. Na sio kwa sababu ya kulipa bali ni adhabu ya kosa.
Na pia sio necessarily awe adui wako.

Adhabu ya kosa ndio lakini je ni adhabu tosha?, je ni adhabu tosha kwa mtu aliyeua watu 10; je ni adhabu kubwa kuliko adhabu nyingine (suffering involved)

[SMU]

Adhabu ya kosa ndio lakini je ni adhabu tosha?, je ni adhabu tosha kwa mtu aliyeua watu 10; je ni adhabu kubwa kuliko adhabu nyingine (suffering involved)

Kuuwawa kwa kunyongwa sio 'adhabu' ndogo kivile....ni ya muda mfupi lakini katika hali ya kawaida hakuna mtu angependa 'kunyongwa'.
Naona umeongeza apsect nyingine ya utoshelevu wa adhabu ya kifo....hii pia ina ugumu wake kwa sababu uwezo wa binaadamu una kikomo. Lakini wanaopinga adhabu ya kifo wanaipinga kwa sababu wanahisi ni ndogo na hivyo wangetaka adhabu kubwa zaidi au ni suala la morality zaidi? Ukitizama sana hakuna kosa kubwa kama kuuwa (kwa makusudi) na kimantiki hakuwezi kuwa na adhabu kubwa zaidi ya kuuwawa (isomeke: kunyang'anywa haki ya kuishi). Ukisema adhabu ya kifo ni ndogo (is not the maximum), kimantiki unasema pia kuuwa kwa makusudi sio kosa kubwa zaidi kuliko makosa mengine yote.

[Nyani Ngabu]

A cold blooded murderer who has brutally killed my daughter or my father and has shown no compunction whatsoever deserves nothing but death. He or she doesn't deserve even one bit to be alive.

My loved one(s) will never be back. So why should he or she continue to be living and breathing free air? No way! The only semblance of closure (to me) would be to take away his or her life also.

I can't day in and day out sleep and wake up knowing that he or she is alive somewhere. I could care less how hard a life he has. Just knowing that he or she still is walking on the surface of the earth is enough to nauseate me.

[Michelle Hilton]

Unajuaje kama hizo adhabu nyingine zitamfanya ajutie maovu yake? Atakuambia kuwa najuta kumuua fulani na fulani? Au?

Cku zote mtu huonekana anapojutia na izo adhabu c za muda mfupi km kwa mtu alieua for da rest of his life awe anatumikia hizo adhabu

[VoiceOfReason]

Kuuwawa kwa kunyongwa sio 'adhabu' ndogo kivile....ni ya muda mfupi lakini katika hali ya kawaida hakuna mtu angependa 'kunyongwa'.

MKuu I can argue kwamba Kunyongwa sio the ultimate suffering lakini kuna mateso hapa ulimwenguni ambayo ni more suffering mfano torture (yaani mtu unaomba ufe) pili kunyongwa/kujinyonga ingekuwa mbaya kivile sidhani kama kuna watu wangejinyonga (hii inaonyesha kwamba unaweza ukapata matatizo hapa ulimwenguni hadi ukaona kufa ni kuzuri)

Naona umeongeza apsect nyingine ya utoshelevu wa adhabu ya kifo....hii pia ina ugumu wake kwa sababu uwezo wa binaadamu una kikomo. Lakini wanaopinga adhabu ya kifo wanaipinga kwa sababu wanahisi ni ndogo na hivyo wangetaka adhabu kubwa zaidi au ni suala la morality zaidi? Ukitizama sana hakuna kosa kubwa kama kuuwa (kwa makusudi) na kimantiki hakuwezi kuwa na adhabu kubwa zaidi ya kuuwawa (isomeke: kunyang'anywa haki ya kuishi). Ukisema adhabu ya kifo ni ndogo (is not the maximum), kimantiki unasema pia kuuwa kwa makusudi sio kosa kubwa zaidi kuliko makosa mengine yote.

Ndio wapo wale wanaopinga adhabu ya kifo sababu ya morals..., pia na mimi naona adhabu ya kifo huenda ikawa ni getting off lightly kwa watuhumiwa.., ofcourse I can argue kwamba kuna makosa makubwa zaidi ya kuua kwa kukusudia (unaweza ukamtenda mtu (abuse) ukaacha kovu kubwa maishani mwake yaani ikawa ni bora ungemuua) unadhani yule anayeabuse watoto ni kosa dogo kuliko aliyeua? Its all subjective lakini tuangalie faida za kunyonga:-

Crime Hindrance: Sio kweli according to research haisaidii refer to post yangu no. 68
Cost Effective: Hapana according to research inaonekana it costs more kunyonga kuliko life improsonment refer post no. 68
Is it the Highest Punishment in terms of suffering: Hapana ingekuwa hivyo watu wangekuwa hawajinyongi voluntarily

[Chapakazi]

Sio kweli unaweza ukamfanya mfungwa productive alafu inasemekana kunyongwa ni cost zaidi kuliko kifungo cha maisha




Sio kweli
It is not a deterrent; crime rates have not gone down.
In fact, the murder rate in the US is 6 times that of Britain and 5 times that of Australia. Neither country has the DP. Texas has twice the murder rate of Wisconsin, a state that doesn't have the DP. Texas and Oklahoma have historically executed the most number of DR inmates, yet in 2003 their state murder rates increased, and both have murder rates higher than the national average.


Wangapi wanajiua kwa kukimbia maisha magumu lakini sijaona mtu anavolunteer kifungo cha maisha na kazi ngumu

Ivi unajua jela za nchi zilizoendelea zinafanyaje kazi? Wafungwa wanapigishwa kazi ngumu? Unajua watu wana-access ya education, tv, nk eti kwa ajili ya ku-rehabilitate?
Cost ya risasi ni kubwa zaidi ya kumlisha mtu kwa miaka 30 three meals a day? Embu fafanua hiyo point maana it doesnt make sense at the moment.
Pili, sijasema kuwa inapunguza murder rates, bali premeditate murders rates. Adhabu ya kifo huwa kwa charge/offence ya namna hiyo. Mimi nikijua leo nikimuua jirani yangu nitauawa, wewe unaona sio a deterrent?
Alafu una-compare nchi yenye watu mil 400 na nchi zenye watu less than 70m? Kwenye a larger population it is obvious kutakuwa na disputes zaidi between individuals. Nipe link to those statistics. Saa nyingine tunapewa statistic bila ku-question meaning yake.
Tatu, watu wanaojiua wanajipumzisha? Watu wanajiua kukimbia matatizo lakini sio kujipumzisha. Death is still an uncertainty.

[Nyani Ngabu]

Halafu kama adhabu ya kifo haipunguzi au kuzuia mauaji, je kifungo cha maisha na kazi ngumu ndivyo vinazuia?

[VoiceOfReason]

Ivi unajua jela za nchi zilizoendelea zinafanyaje kazi? Wafungwa wanapigishwa kazi ngumu? Unajua watu wana-access ya education, tv, nk eti kwa ajili ya ku-rehabilitate?
Cost ya risasi ni kubwa zaidi ya kumlisha mtu kwa miaka 30 three meals a day? Embu fafanua hiyo point maana it doesnt make sense at the moment.

Mkuu hapa ni judicial cost mpaka mtu akija kunyongwa ni long process ambayo ina-involve legalities (advocates e.t.c) ili kuhakikisha kwamba kweli huyu mtu anapaswa kunyongwa na raisi kutia saini ambayo ni very costfully sio kwamba ukihukumiwa kunyongwa leo kesho unapigwa risasi

Pili, sijasema kuwa inapunguza murder rates, bali premeditate murders rates. Adhabu ya kifo huwa kwa charge/offence ya namna hiyo. Mimi nikijua leo nikimuua jirani yangu nitauawa, wewe unaona sio a deterrent?
Alafu una-compare nchi yenye watu mil 400 na nchi zenye watu less than 70m? Kwenye a larger population it is obvious kutakuwa na disputes zaidi between individuals. Nipe link to those statistics. Saa nyingine tunapewa statistic bila ku-question meaning yake.

Mkuu hivi kwanini mtu huwa anamuua mwenzake?, hivi huwa anaua sababu anajua kwamba nitafungwa tu miaka michache?, au mtu huwa anaua either kwa hasira, au ni physco au katika ujambazi wake kwa kuogopa kutambuliwa hence kufungwa ndio anaua ili asishikwe na kufungwa ? (nini motive ya kuua?)

Mkuu hivi ujaona hapo kuna comparison ya state btn Texas na Wisconsin alafu nilitoa comparions btn Hong Kong na Singapore ambao wote wana sama culture na same demographics

The deterrence issue

Supporters of the death penalty often cite deterrence as a reason to keep or reinstate the punishment.^{[citation needed]} However, a study comparing Hong Kong, a city-state without the death penalty, and Singapore, a city-state that uses the death penalty frequently and swiftly, and has a similar culture and murder rate to Hong Kong, found no evidence that Singapore's death penalty deterred crime relative to Hong Kong. ^{[84]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Punishment}

Tatu, watu wanaojiua wanajipumzisha? Watu wanajiua kukimbia matatizo lakini sio kujipumzisha. Death is still an uncertainty.

Mkuu wanajiua kukimbia matatizo which shows kwamba death sio "the ultimate tatizo" Hence kumbe tunaweza kutoa adhabu ambazo ni kubwa zaidi ya death..., Mfano mwingine wanacheshi/spies walikuwa wanapewa cyanide tablets hili wakishikwa waweze kujiua mapema ili wasije kuteswa na kutoa siri (which means death is not a ultimate punishment) wangapi watu wajitoa mhanga kwa kujilipua (which means people are not that afraid of death anyway)

[VoiceOfReason]

Halafu kama adhabu ya kifo haipunguzi au kuzuia mauaji, je kifungo cha maisha na kazi ngumu ndivyo vinazuia?

Mkuu there are five purposes of punishment:-


1. Incapacitation: A felon in prison cannot commit crimes while imprisoned. An executed felon cannot commit a crime ever again.

2. Deterrence: The threat of punishment deters people from engaging in illegal acts.

3. Restitution: The felon is required to take some action to at least partially return the victim to the status quo ante.

4. Retribution: The felon harmed society; therefore society (or the direct victims) is entitled to inflict harm in return.

5. Rehabilitation: The punishment changes the felon in order to make him a better citizen afterwards. (The punishment can include mandatory vocational training, counseling, drug treatment, etc.)

Kwahiyo mkuu hapa argument ni kwamba Je kunyongwa kunafanya watu waache kufanya crime kushinda adhabu nyingine na jibu ni kwamba (The Jury is Still Out)..... Hakuna evidence kwamba this is the case

[Nyani Ngabu]

Kwahiyo mkuu hapa argument ni kwamba Je kunyongwa kunafanya watu waache kufanya crime kushinda adhabu nyingine na jibu ni kwamba (The Jury is Still Out)..... Hakuna evidence kwamba this is the case

That I agree and I do so without qualification(s). Hakuna adhabu inayofanya watu waache maovu kabisa. Iwe ovu lolote lile. Maovu ni sehemu ya maisha ya mwanadamu na jamii. Kama wewe unajua kuna adhabu ambayo hufanya watu waache ovu fulani naomba nitajie.

[VoiceOfReason]

That I agree and I do so without qualification(s). Hakuna adhabu inayofanya watu waache maovu kabisa. Iwe ovu lolote lile. Maovu ni sehemu ya maisha ya mwanadamu na jamii. Kama wewe unajua kuna adhabu ambayo hufanya watu waache ovu fulani naomba nitajie.

Yes Mkuu kwahiyo if that the case tuache kutumia hii issue ya determent ya crime ku-justify death penalty.

Maybe kuna effective way ya kuwafanya wafungwa wawe productive..., yaani kama ina-cost x amount ya kumfunga mtu basi tuhakikishe anazalisha 3x akiwa jela.., huku anapata kibano cha kufa mtu, ili hata akitoka itabidi afikilie mara mbili kabla ya kurudi tena na in case ya watu ambao ni menace to society tuhakikishe they will never taste freedom ever again

[Lizzy]

NO...., it‘s NOT