US Media Campaign to Discredit Iranian Election

US Media Campaign to Discredit Iranian Election

By Charting StockSee also:-Lights turned off on media after elections: The AFP news agency reported that Iran’s wireless telephone network was shut down at 5:30pm GMT (10:00pm in Tehran), just as incumbent president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was making a television appearance to congratulate himself on a "great victory".
See also:-Landslide or Fraud? The Debate Online Over Iran’s Election Results: We will bring you updates throughout the day and encourage Iranian readers to share their thoughts and experiences with us.
June 13, 2009 "Charting Stocks" -- -Was the Iranian election a fraud? That’s what our great western media sources want us to believe. While scanning through the coverage, I could not find one mainstream news article which covered the election results in an objective, unbiased manner. Either prominently displayed in the title or first paragraph, each of the articles suggest the election was a fraud. The obvious question arises - If their electoral system can’t be trusted, why were they watching the results so “closely” in the first place? I’d probably find better things to do then obsess over the results of a rigged game, but hey that’s just me.
It’s worth noting that Iran, unlike the US, does not use electronic voting machines which are easily tampered with. They actually have paper ballots. It’s also important to point out the health of their electoral process. They had an 85% turnout! We, “the champions of democracy” turnout only a fraction of that percentage for our presidential elections. In fact 2 out of 3 American citizens find something better to do during election day.

Reuters Iran’s election result staggers analysts
Hard-liner Mahmoud Ahmadinejad defeated moderate challenger Mirhossein Mousavi by a surprisingly wide margin in Iran’s presidential election, official results showed on Saturday. Mousavi derided the tally as a “dangerous charade.’

Fox News: U.S. Monitoring Iran’s Election Results
U.S. officials are casting doubt over the results of Iran’s election, in which the government declared President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the winner Saturday…U.S. analysts find it “not credible [Notice the usual UN-NAMED "US Officials and Analysts]

MSNBC: Violence flares as Ahmadinejad wins Iran vote
Riot police battled with protesters Saturday as officials announced that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won a landslide election victory. His opponent denounced the results as ‘treason’….Ahmadinejad had the apparent backing of the ruling theocracy.

CNN: Ahmadinejad wins landslide in disputed election
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has been declared the big winner in the country’s election, but his chief rival and supporters in the Tehran streets are crying foul.

NY Times: Ahmadinejad Is Declared Victor in Iran

The Iranian government declared an outright election victory for President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Saturday morning, and riot police officers fought with supporters of the opposition candidate, Mir Hussein Moussavi, who insisted that the election had been stolen.

Time Magazine: Protests Greet Ahmadinejad Win in Iran: ‘It’s Not Possible!
Iran’s Interior Minister announced Saturday that incumbent president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had won 63.29% of the vote in the nation’s closely watched presidential poll. The announcement, greeted with widespread skepticism by Iranian opposition supporters and by foreign analysts, has brought thousands of people onto the streets where they have encountered a strong police presence and the threat of violence.

Was the election stolen? According to the Iranian Interior Minister Sadeq Mahsouli, there has been no ‘written complaint’ about voter fraud. He declared that the presidential elections were conducted in a manner that ruled out the possibility of voter fraud. “No violations that may have influenced the vote have been reported, and we have received no written complaint,” he said in response to a question posed by an Italian reporter.

It’s also worth mentioning that contrary to what our media would have us believe, Ahmadinejad doesn’t have much power in Iran. The President is not the most powerful person in the country. He is not the commander in chief and does not control the army and the intelligence and security services. He does not have the power to go to war. Those powers are reserved for the supreme leader of Iran Ayatollah Khomeini.

[X-PASTER]

Kuna watu humu duniani kazi yao wao kuvuta watu mashati tu.
Hawana jema ndani ya nafsi zao.

Keep it up bros (Mtoto & MwanaFalsafa1 & other wenye ufahamu wa kujadili kwa hikma na ufahamu).

[Mtoto]

	Quote:	Juma Contena
	Mtoto nadhani hapo ndipo ukweli wenyewe ulipo tatizo sio the system (ujamaa) tatizo ni hao western europeans. kwanza ni mfumo ambao hawa usaport sio kwamba aufai no bali kwa sababu hau wa-suit wao na mwenendo wao especially umention nchi kama UK ambao wana mfumo wao wa class, na exploitation of the lower classes. off course america was bound to follow the british social structure as it owned the colony and americans today are descendants of the english. ume mention the importance of exploiting people's minds and the cement used to constuct the way of thinking i think its this line of thinking that mzungu always uses if u analyze his approzch of things and how they run their society. kwanza kabisa hawa jamaa ujifunza wameshaona what triggered other revolutions in their continet and others, once people begin to look in terms inequality and equality it can trigger a movement after all they had lost america as a colony by underestimating the power of people, kwa wenyewe imebidi wa ruhusu Unions so that poor people can have a voice therefore they knew if socialism was to succeed it might trigger a movement in their lands as people would have another angle of comparison after all Karl Max had warned of all this. sasa ukiwacha ujamaa ushamiri uoni watu wao itakuja siku kuchungulia pembeni na kuona kwa nini wao waonewe na wachache, na ndio maana ni kitu ambacho walikipiga vita na awafanyi biashara na nchi yeyote inayo support that form of system kwa sababu wao wananyingine. sasa iwapo ni nchi chache ndio zina enda na ujamaa utafanya kitu gani na nani zaidi ya ku-exploit what u can only do inside na nchi yenyewe tanznania. umeme mention the fact inorder to move forward u need alot of educated people haya kulikuwa na wangapi enzi za nyerere it was bound to fail.

Sawa mkuu. I totally see your argument. Woga huu wa nchi za magharibi ndo ulichangia vita baridi na theory ya dominoes effect. Ikafanya watu wengi wapoteze maisha kama Patrice Limumba (Zaire), Che Guvera, nk.

Lakini mkuu hudhani wewe mwanadamu ana silika ya ushindani? Na siasi za ujamaa zinaua huu ushindani wetu? Unaweza kunitajia nchi iliyokuwa na ujamaa bila kuwa na kiongozi mkatili hapo juu? Usisahau kuna kipindi bongo ulikuwa ukimuongelea Nyerere, ujue utatoweka tu!
Sawa mnaweza kusema, katika kufikia hiyo utopian society lazima tupitie kipindi cha kuwa na mtawala mmoja mbabe awaonyeshe watu njia na 'kung'oa' wapinzani. Lakini kukumbuka, Power is Corruptive. Jambo hili lilimkuta Stalin na Mao. Walipokuwa wanaingia madarakani waliahidi mengi, lakini wamekuja kufia katika hayo madaraka baada ya kuleta maafa kwa wengi na kutofika hata nusu njia ya kufika utopia. Hilo mkuu unasemaje juu yake? Utopia ni mbinguni peke yake. Mwanadamu ana silika ya kuwa mshindani sana kiasi huwezi kumwambia kuwa mimi na wewe ni sawa. Kwanza nature yenyewe ina-prove kwamba kila mtu hayuko sawa. Ndo maana watu wengine wamejaliwa vipaji katika michezo, nk. Sasa kama wote tupo sawa, si tungekuwa tuna uwezo sawa. Tuangalie mchwa, kwa maana hii concept ya ujamaa unaweza kusema imetoka kwao. Kwa mchwa yeye, tangu anapozaliwa, hawezi ku-move kwenda juu au chini katika society. Yana kama ni askari, yeye mpaka kufa atakuwa askari. Kama ni malkia, hicho ni mpaka kufa. Na hili ni kweli kwa nyuki pia. Sasa mkuu, sisi wanadamu tunauwezo wa kuwa na fani tofauti. Na fani tofauti zinazawadia mtu kitofauti. Mfano, kwenye mpira Ronaldo anauzika kwa $100mil +, wewe na elimu yako unapata $100,000. Kwa hiyo mimi kama kiumbe mwenye uwezo wa kufikiri ningependa kupata $100mil au sio? Na basi nitatumia juhudi zangu na ushindani wangu kufika hapo. Lakini katika ujamaa, nitaambiwa kwanza tukalime wote. Huoni shida hapo mkuu?

[Juma Contena]

	Quote:	Mtoto
	Sawa mkuu. I totally see your argument. Woga huu wa nchi za magharibi ndo ulichangia vita baridi na theory ya dominoes effect. Ikafanya watu wengi wapoteze maisha kama Patrice Limumba (Zaire), Che Guvera, nk. Lakini mkuu hudhani wewe mwanadamu ana silika ya ushindani? Na siasi za ujamaa zinaua huu ushindani wetu? Unaweza kunitajia nchi iliyokuwa na ujamaa bila kuwa na kiongozi mkatili hapo juu? Usisahau kuna kipindi bongo ulikuwa ukimuongelea Nyerere, ujue utatoweka tu! Sawa mnaweza kusema, katika kufikia hiyo utopian society lazima tupitie kipindi cha kuwa na mtawala mmoja mbabe awaonyeshe watu njia na 'kung'oa' wapinzani. Lakini kukumbuka, Power is Corruptive. Jambo hili lilimkuta Stalin na Mao. Walipokuwa wanaingia madarakani waliahidi mengi, lakini wamekuja kufia katika hayo madaraka baada ya kuleta maafa kwa wengi na kutofika hata nusu njia ya kufika utopia. Hilo mkuu unasemaje juu yake? Utopia ni mbinguni peke yake. Mwanadamu ana silika ya kuwa mshindani sana kiasi huwezi kumwambia kuwa mimi na wewe ni sawa. Kwanza nature yenyewe ina-prove kwamba kila mtu hayuko sawa. Ndo maana watu wengine wamejaliwa vipaji katika michezo, nk. Sasa kama wote tupo sawa, si tungekuwa tuna uwezo sawa. Tuangalie mchwa, kwa maana hii concept ya ujamaa unaweza kusema imetoka kwao. Kwa mchwa yeye, tangu anapozaliwa, hawezi ku-move kwenda juu au chini katika society. Yana kama ni askari, yeye mpaka kufa atakuwa askari. Kama ni malkia, hicho ni mpaka kufa. Na hili ni kweli kwa nyuki pia. Sasa mkuu, sisi wanadamu tunauwezo wa kuwa na fani tofauti. Na fani tofauti zinazawadia mtu kitofauti. Mfano, kwenye mpira Ronaldo anauzika kwa $100mil +, wewe na elimu yako unapata $100,000. Kwa hiyo mimi kama kiumbe mwenye uwezo wa kufikiri ningependa kupata $100mil au sio? Na basi nitatumia juhudi zangu na ushindani wangu kufika hapo. Lakini katika ujamaa, nitaambiwa kwanza tukalime wote. Huoni shida hapo mkuu?

Mh., First things first lets make things clear i never said na support socialism all i ever said why it never gained momentum and the challenges it received from countries embracing Capitalism and why it was a mammoth task for it florish.

Unazungumza about dictatorship leaders and their association with socialism, first most countries that practised Ujamaa had just gained independence of some sort either colonial or revolution from their monarchies with exception of few far eastern countries. Pili lazima ukumbuke hizi nchi zilikuwa ni maskini sasa unapolazimisha ambitous projects without the money to fund them how do you aim to achieve ur goals. the answer laid to cheap and sometimes forceful labour to achieve their goals. wakati huo lazima ukumbuke they can not trade their resources outside their countries to gain money. so if you're working people with little pay, tunarudi tena square one people dont see Ujamaa anymore they begin to see inequality within Ujamaa kwanini wengine wasimamie tu nakufadikia wengine tu umie. again the power of people will take over so to make sure the projects continue then udictator ndipo ulipoanza because they never had money coming in and they could not exploit their assets to raise funds as most countries practising Ujamaa where in similar situation to them, dead end na nadhani unajua nyingi imebidi zikubali zenyewe matokeo zilizokuwa na ubishi people power brought changes. swali je iwapo nchi kama russia ingekua imeruhusiwa ku-trade na natural gases assets walizokua nazo ingekuaje, then they could have afforded to pay inside for their ambitous plan on equal terms.

Vile vile kuhusu sharing societies mbona zipo nyingi not on a nation scale but on large communities such as tribe like. mfano wa karibu hapo hapo nyumbani wa haya. ndio not the same as ujamaa, also people boardering china such as the 'Lepcha' outside india live completly by sharing kiasi kwamba mtu akii-twa selfish ana chance kubwa ya kukomit suicide or runaway rather remain there. but since the indians began association and trading with them anthropologist have noted their behaviours beggining to change and the way of seeing things, now they're looking in the eyes of traders perpectives therefore their way of life soon will change (be corrupted). hii tena tunarudi tena kwenye kitu ambacho unasisitiza sana na unajua umuhimu wake exposition of anything idea, culture, different way of life to humans becomes a way of thinking.

lastly kuhusu tofauti za binadamu let me tell you very little difference hipo people are what they are because of their life reinforcement and very little between genes play a part on these issues. sasa usione ronaldo leo anacheza mpira unajua alitolewa kwao kwenda kuishi academy wakati ana miaka mingapi. vilevile usione amenunuliwa kwa hela nyingi ni longterm investement they're thinking winning a champions league alone in a season a club is supposed to return that money, ronaldo anakuja na contact zake ambazo zitaifaidisha timu, yaani baada ya miaka miwili mauzo ya jezi na kadhalika anajilipa, mfano kitendo cha Beckham kuwa Madrid alikuwa anasaidia club kulipa nusu ya mishahara ya wachezaji through his contacts that also benefit madrid, sasa wewe msomi unarudisha nini hasa wakulipe hela hiyo andika kitabu au invent something if you want to lots of money Mkuu.

[X-PASTER]

Kuna msemo mmoja upo hivi "Yaliopita si Ndwele, tugange yajao"

Maana yake ni kwamba, yalio pita si kidonda, (yalio pita yeshapita), tuangalie hayo yalioko mbele yetu.

Tunachotakiwa kwa sasa hivi ni kuwa na mipango endelevu ya kuwakwamua makabwela (walala hoi), kutoka kwenye lindi la umaskini.

Je Watanzania milioni 40, hakuna watu wenye kuweza kutoa mingozo ya kimaendeleo, kila Mtanzania akafahidika?

Kuna haja kubwa sana ya kuangalia mwelekeo wa uchumi wetu, Mfumo wa elimu, jinsi ya matumizi ya pato la taifa, na mengine meeeengi.

Mimi siamini kwamba tutashindwa, naweza nisiwe mimi lakini wapo wachumi walio bobea, wataalamu wa kila fani. Kiasi wakitumiwa vizuri wanaweza kwa njia moja ama nyingine kutusogeza japo nusu hatua.

[MwanaFalsafa1]

	Quote:	Mtoto
	Those are good. For me, maendeleo ni upatikanaji wa basic goods, na haki. From there, nchi itaweza kujijenga yenyewe. And i firmly believe hii ndo inatakiwa iwe kazi ya serikali. Sema serikali yetu imedoro. By basic goods i mean; elimu, afya na infastructure. Sio kazi ya serikali kulisha wananchi, bali kuwapa uwezo wa kujilisha. Na kwa kuwapatia infastructure nzuri, elimu na afya, wananchi wataweza kutumia uwezo wao kujimudu wenyewe, labda wawe mananga tu. Pia sheria za kulinda wananchi ni kitu cha lazima. Bongo watu wengi wanadhani maendeleo ni kuwa na majengo kama NY...hahahaha! nadhani those are more of the results of maendeleo. Infastructure = umeme, maji, barabara (communication routes) including simu, mtandao, na vitu kama FIRE STATIONs (kumbuka BAGAMOYO hapo majuzi tu), nk

You are right all that the mwananchi wants is access to basic needs. It's not like the people are asking to be like the U.S.A. or anything. It's true that the government can't hand people millions of shillings. There will always be the rich and the poor. Lakini as long as the average mwananchi knows that he can get his family a dailly meal, if he can give his children a good education and if he can have access to a good health care then the rest a just bonuses. The problem with our government is the dependence of foreign aid. Foreign aid usually just leads to an increase in national debt because they end up paying for this aid one way or another. It is not impossible to develop because others have done it. Sure it's harder for the poor to become rich but it is possible.

I believe the best way for us to develop is education. It is because the majority of Tanzanians don't have education that is why the governments plays as like puppets. If I was to become a president(wishful thinking) this is what I will do:

1.Elimu ya msingi isiwe la saba elimu ya msingi iwe form four. Kwa maana hiyo kila mtoto ahakikishiwa walau kufika form four. Siku hizi hata serikalini minimum requirement ni O Level sasa whats the point ya watu kuishia la saba? this means you will have huge number of people leaving school at standard seven after which they don't have many options yani inakua ili mradi mkono uende kimywani.

2.Katika secta ya afya ninge jenga mazingira ya kushawishi watu zaidi wamiliki hospitali binafis. Hii ita punguzia mzigo wa serikali kujenga hospitali nyingi na pesa hizo zinaweza kutumika pengine. What I will do is create an organ to govern all hospitals ziwe za serikali au binafsi so that there is a standardized health care system.

3.Matumizi yote yasiyo ya lazima ya serikali yapunguzwe. This is pamoja na kufuta vyeo vyote ambavyo havi fanyi chochote zaidi ya kupeana tu kirafiki. Mikoa geographically nita ziacha hivyo hivyo lakini administratively nita ziunganisha mfano Kilimanjaro na Arusha zinakuwa na mkuu wa mkoa moja na local government moja. Serikali itakuwa na wizara 15 tu. Idaidi ya wabunge nayo ipunguzwe tuna wabunge wengi wasiyo wa lazima. na huu ubunge sijui wa vijana au wakuteuliwa vyote nonsense. To be held accountable lazima uchaguliwe na wananchi.

This is just a few ideas ofcoarse there are more and I have just summarised these points because at the time being I'm multi tasking between school work and JF. Kama una any suggestions toa. Kama una maswali uliza.

[Mtoto]

	Quote:	Juma Contena
	Mh., First things first lets make things clear i never said na support socialism all i ever said why it never gained momentum and the challenges it received from countries embracing Capitalism and why it was a mammoth task for it florish. Unazungumza about dictatorship leaders and their association with socialism, first most countries that practised Ujamaa had just gained independence of some sort either colonial or revolution from their monarchies with exception of few far eastern countries. Pili lazima ukumbuke hizi nchi zilikuwa ni maskini sasa unapolazimisha ambitous projects without the money to fund them how do you aim to achieve ur goals. the answer laid to cheap and sometimes forceful labour to achieve their goals. wakati huo lazima ukumbuke they can not trade their resources outside their countries to gain money. so if you're working people with little pay, tunarudi tena square one people dont see Ujamaa anymore they begin to see inequality within Ujamaa kwanini wengine wasimamie tu nakufadikia wengine tu umie. again the power of people will take over so to make sure the projects continue then udictator ndipo ulipoanza because they never had money coming in and they could not exploit their assets to raise funds as most countries practising Ujamaa where in similar situation to them, dead end na nadhani unajua nyingi imebidi zikubali zenyewe matokeo zilizokuwa na ubishi people power brought changes. swali je iwapo nchi kama russia ingekua imeruhusiwa ku-trade na natural gases assets walizokua nazo ingekuaje, then they could have afforded to pay inside for their ambitous plan on equal terms. Vile vile kuhusu sharing societies mbona zipo nyingi not on a nation scale but on large communities such as tribe like. mfano wa karibu hapo hapo nyumbani wa haya. ndio not the same as ujamaa, also people boardering china such as the 'Lepcha' outside india live completly by sharing kiasi kwamba mtu akii-twa selfish ana chance kubwa ya kukomit suicide or runaway rather remain there. but since the indians began association and trading with them anthropologist have noted their behaviours beggining to change and the way of seeing things, now they're looking in the eyes of traders perpectives therefore their way of life soon will change (be corrupted). hii tena tunarudi tena kwenye kitu ambacho unasisitiza sana na unajua umuhimu wake exposition of anything idea, culture, different way of life to humans becomes a way of thinking. lastly kuhusu tofauti za binadamu let me tell you very little difference hipo people are what they are because of their life reinforcement and very little between genes play a part on these issues. sasa usione ronaldo leo anacheza mpira unajua alitolewa kwao kwenda kuishi academy wakati ana miaka mingapi. vilevile usione amenunuliwa kwa hela nyingi ni longterm investement they're thinking winning a champions league alone in a season a club is supposed to return that money, ronaldo anakuja na contact zake ambazo zitaifaidisha timu, yaani baada ya miaka miwili mauzo ya jezi na kadhalika anajilipa, mfano kitendo cha Beckham kuwa Madrid alikuwa anasaidia club kulipa nusu ya mishahara ya wachezaji through his contacts that also benefit madrid, sasa wewe msomi unarudisha nini hasa wakulipe hela hiyo andika kitabu au invent something if you want to lots of money Mkuu.

Okay...nimependa hii sentensi yako: "people dont see Ujamaa anymore they begin to see inequality within Ujamaa".

Lakini mkuu, ume-support argument yako kwa kusema nchi nyingi zilikuwa changa, na hazikuwa na pesa. Pesa ni commodity inayotumiwa na macapitalists. Kwa hiyo popote pale utakapohitaji pesa, huoni tayari unaipa capitalism an advantage? Kwa kuangalia mifano yako uliyotoa, ujamaa unafanya kazi vizuri katika small scale communities, ambazo hazitegemei pesa ku-survive. Katika national level, ambapo govt lazima i-provide vitu kama umeme, maji, nk in large scale, huoni mfumo wa ujamaa unaingia katika matatizo, kwa maana hapo lazima uhitaji pesa kutoa hizo huduma?
Hivyo ujamaa ungeweza kufanya kazi kama watu wangekuwa wanatumia butter trade. Na hii inaleta tatizo community inapozidi a certain population size, maana hapo unahitaji specialisation, nk. Sasa daktari ambaye hana kitu kingine cha kunilipa, isipokuwa ujuzi wake, ataweza kujimudu? Value ya service (matibatu) yake kwa mkulima itakuwa na thamani gan? debe la mahindi au? Nadhani once you put money into the equation, basi, capitalism lazima i-flourish na kuua ujamaa.

Mwisho kabisa, ningependa kusema tofauti ya watu ni kubwa sana. Wewe na Ronaldo hata kama tungewapa matunzi yaliyo exactly the same, yeye angeishia kuwa mchezaji bora kuliko wewe. Hii ndo maana hata madarasani watu wana uwezo tofauti. Kwani mtihani na kwenda darasani si mnaenda pamoja, mbona mmoja anapata 90% na mwingine 50%? We are not equal. Mtu asikae akakudanganya hilo hata siku moja.

[Juma Contena]

to the future president

	Quote:	MwanaFalsafa1
	You are right all that the mwananchi wants is access to basic needs. It's not like the people are asking to be like the U.S.A. or anything. It's true that the government can't hand people millions of shillings. There will always be the rich and the poor. Lakini as long as the average mwananchi knows that he can get his family a dailly meal, if he can give his children a good education and if he can have access to a good health care then the rest a just bonuses. The problem with our government is the dependence of foreign aid. Foreign aid usually just leads to an increase in national debt because they end up paying for this aid one way or another. It is not impossible to develop because others have done it. Sure it's harder for the poor to become rich but it is possible. I believe the best way for us to develop is education. It is because the majority of Tanzanians don't have education that is why the governments plays as like puppets. If I was to become a president(wishful thinking) this is what I will do: 1.Elimu ya msingi isiwe la saba elimu ya msingi iwe form four. Kwa maana hiyo kila mtoto ahakikishiwa walau kufika form four. Siku hizi hata serikalini minimum requirement ni O Level sasa whats the point ya watu kuishia la saba? this means you will have huge number of people leaving school at standard seven after which they don't have many options yani inakua ili mradi mkono uende kimywani. 2.Katika secta ya afya ninge jenga mazingira ya kushawishi watu zaidi wamiliki hospitali binafis. Hii ita punguzia mzigo wa serikali kujenga hospitali nyingi na pesa hizo zinaweza kutumika pengine. What I will do is create an organ to govern all hospitals ziwe za serikali au binafsi so that there is a standardized health care system. 3.Matumizi yote yasiyo ya lazima ya serikali yapunguzwe. This is pamoja na kufuta vyeo vyote ambavyo havi fanyi chochote zaidi ya kupeana tu kirafiki. Mikoa geographically nita ziacha hivyo hivyo lakini administratively nita ziunganisha mfano Kilimanjaro na Arusha zinakuwa na mkuu wa mkoa moja na local government moja. Serikali itakuwa na wizara 15 tu. Idaidi ya wabunge nayo ipunguzwe tuna wabunge wengi wasiyo wa lazima. na huu ubunge sijui wa vijana au wakuteuliwa vyote nonsense. To be held accountable lazima uchaguliwe na wananchi. This is just a few ideas ofcoarse there are more and I have just summarised these points because at the time being I'm multi tasking between school work and JF. Kama una any suggestions toa. Kama una maswali uliza.

first congratulations on your future goals, on the opening day of disney park, the founder walt disney was not alive to witness the day. he was dead by then. when his younger brother was asked its a magical place, so wonderful and it could bring a lot of hapiness to families both kids and the parents, its a shame walt is not here to witness the final dream. the brother replied no its not a shame at all walt saw it first on his dreams he aimed to create the dream that was in his head. though fate did not permit him to see the final product, but it was he who saw the disney park first. so never doubt your wishful thinking.

now to the policies you proposed, though quickly but you made them open to scrutany of the public if im correct.

1. kuhusu elimu mtu yeyote ambae atabisha hili suala ni muhumu ktk jamii kwa upande wangu amna sababu ya kuendelea kubishana nae. however you seem to think lower education alone is needed much more than higher education. first we have to understand there are going to be many people who are not going to use the system regardless how free it is. then how do you reach these people. second we need teachers to teach students, as the levels go higher the more qualified they need to be. under the current market many prefer to give their skills to private sector in an aim to improve their standard of life as the government pay is just not enough in comparison to their competitors. third to develope a country we need more higher educated individuals than the level of education you proposed, we need more doctors, social scientist, econimists, bussiness, enterpreneurs, skillful bankers, agricultural scientist in short we need many proffesional qualificitions to meet the demand of the country.
without moving from this argument at the same time those few we have or had we are losing them to outside universities mainly Canada wich is taking a lot of our Proffessors and doctors because the government as no use with them and those few remaining you know they prefer politics to their proffesion because there is no reward in their sectors of employment. so responsibilty needs to be taken when you become the president and i hope you have enough reasons to need to your educated mass because once you have too many educated people even at the lever of form four trust me peole are not going to withstand and ignore things that are done with the current administration.

2. second solution yako ya kutatua matatizo ya Afya private sector uta encourage ichangie on that sector to ease the government pain of building many hospitals, ok based on your own post. ulikua sijui unakubaliana na post ya nani kusema kwamba an average man only needs access to basic needs na afya yake ni kitu ambacho ni muhimu katika maisha yake nakubaliana na wewe hapo. now lets look at this argument first who is an average man in the country of 40m(according to your sources) with that no. of people where it is estimated between 70 to 80 percent are in poverty. lets go with the middle percent just to justify the argument. in a country of 40m, and 75% in poverty who needs the government to provide them with a system that would enable them to meet the demands you have mentioned in your post. that is a ratio of 3:1 or 30m people to 10m million people. haya first of all at the moment not all those 10m million who are not considered poor can afford private hospital bills. sasa kuna faida gani ya ku-increase this sector au unasahau kwamba private means offering better quality at a costly bill. again unataka kukimbia responsibility mh., or labda you got carried away and forgot we need realistic views what needs to be done and not what we think should be done.

3. nakubaliana na sehemu ya kwanza ya argument hii uncessary spending have to go beginning with scrapping the id which they are proposing at the moment mambo ya kuiga na idea zingine zozote ambazo azisaidii jamii wala aziboreshi uduma. second i do not know about shughuli za wakuu wa mikoa but kupunguza wabunge in my opinion is not a solution matter of fact it will be big mistake. kwanza in a democracy we need challengers to the administration kitendo cha kupunguza wabunge ni kupunguza democrasia na challenge kwa serikali, labda wapiga kura sasa waanze kufikiria kuchagua mtu atakae wapigania haki zao rather than mtu tu kwa sababu katoka kwao kama Edward Lowassa ambae ana faida yeyote bali hasara tu kwa taifa.
lastly mungu akupe nguvu ya kufuata ndoto yako

[Juma Contena]

Mh., Mtoto

	Quote:	Mtoto
	Okay...nimependa hii sentensi yako: "people dont see Ujamaa anymore they begin to see inequality within Ujamaa". Lakini mkuu, ume-support argument yako kwa kusema nchi nyingi zilikuwa changa, na hazikuwa na pesa. Pesa ni commodity inayotumiwa na macapitalists. Kwa hiyo popote pale utakapohitaji pesa, huoni tayari unaipa capitalism an advantage? Kwa kuangalia mifano yako uliyotoa, ujamaa unafanya kazi vizuri katika small scale communities, ambazo hazitegemei pesa ku-survive. Katika national level, ambapo govt lazima i-provide vitu kama umeme, maji, nk in large scale, huoni mfumo wa ujamaa unaingia katika matatizo, kwa maana hapo lazima uhitaji pesa kutoa hizo huduma? Hivyo ujamaa ungeweza kufanya kazi kama watu wangekuwa wanatumia butter trade. Na hii inaleta tatizo community inapozidi a certain population size, maana hapo unahitaji specialisation, nk. Sasa daktari ambaye hana kitu kingine cha kunilipa, isipokuwa ujuzi wake, ataweza kujimudu? Value ya service (matibatu) yake kwa mkulima itakuwa na thamani gan? debe la mahindi au? Nadhani once you put money into the equation, basi, capitalism lazima i-flourish na kuua ujamaa. Mwisho kabisa, ningependa kusema tofauti ya watu ni kubwa sana. Wewe na Ronaldo hata kama tungewapa matunzi yaliyo exactly the same, yeye angeishia kuwa mchezaji bora kuliko wewe. Hii ndo maana hata madarasani watu wana uwezo tofauti. Kwani mtihani na kwenda darasani si mnaenda pamoja, mbona mmoja anapata 90% na mwingine 50%? We are not equal. Mtu asikae akakudanganya hilo hata siku moja.

Mh,
sikukataa hili suala na ndio maana nikasema walikua hawana hela ya kuendelea na over ambitous projects zao kutokana na kwamba walikua hawana means ya ku-raise capital to go on with those projects na hii ni kwa sababu the people who could buy their goods at a price to allow them to continue were the west, na nikamaliza je nchi kama russia ambayo today imeshaanza kuspread his pipes of gas all over europe ingefanya hivi at the time uoni kwamba wangekuwa na hela ya ku-fund projects zao. vile vile nikasema mapatna wa Ujamaa walikua maskini kwa hivyo ikikua vigumu in the long run to survive especially when there is no trade movement, sasa ikabidi wachukue forceful measure in an attempt to challenge the capitalists societies yaani wawafikie kwa lazima na hapo ndipo u-dectator ulipoanza.

kuhusu mfano wa Lepcha people ilikua ni kujibu point yako ya kusema kwamba we are naturally born to compete kwa hivyo ujamaa auwezi fanya kazi ndio maana nikakupa mfano mbona kuna societies ambazo wanaishi bila competition so its not neccesarly in our nature to do so na mifano ni mingi tu

umechunguza ni jinsi gani mmoja anavyosoma na mwengine ana vyotumia muda wake kufukuzia sista duu au kwa nini tunatabia ya kuwapa majina wasomi wanaokwenda library kila siku alafu ndio watu hao hao asilimia kubwa wanafaulu sasa mtu ashike kitabu leo kesho mtiani aje na 90% huyo ndio genius na wachache wenye kipaji hicho vinginevyo atakae shika kitabu leo kesho mtihani tunajua hatma yake ni nini au?
ronaldo is a special kind of player sijakataa but he had to train hard to be where he is na he has put alot of commitment to his football hivi unaelewa kwamba hata bia agusi kwa sababu ya kulinda mwili wake, ndio maana nikasema genes play little, but mainly the reinforcement and the belief you give your self is very important

[MwanaFalsafa1]

	Quote:	Juma Contena
	to the future president first congratulations on your future goals, on the opening day of disney park, the founder walt disney was not alive to witness the day. he was dead by then. when his younger brother was asked its a magical place, so wonderful and it could bring a lot of hapiness to families both kids and the parents, its a shame walt is not here to witness the final dream. the brother replied no its not a shame at all walt saw it first on his dreams he aimed to create the dream that was in his head. though fate did not permit him to see the final product, but it was he who saw the disney park first. so never doubt your wishful thinking. now to the policies you proposed, though quickly but you made them open to scrutany of the public if im correct. 1. kuhusu elimu mtu yeyote ambae atabisha hili suala ni muhumu ktk jamii kwa upande wangu amna sababu ya kuendelea kubishana nae. however you seem to think lower education alone is needed much more than higher education. first we have to understand there are going to be many people who are not going to use the system regardless how free it is. then how do you reach these people. second we need teachers to teach students, as the levels go higher the more qualified they need to be. under the current market many prefer to give their skills to private sector in an aim to improve their standard of life as the government pay is just not enough in comparison to their competitors. third to develope a country we need more higher educated individuals than the level of education you proposed, we need more doctors, social scientist, econimists, bussiness, enterpreneurs, skillful bankers, agricultural scientist in short we need many proffesional qualificitions to meet the demand of the country. without moving from this argument at the same time those few we have or had we are losing them to outside universities mainly Canada wich is taking a lot of our Proffessors and doctors because the government as no use with them and those few remaining you know they prefer politics to their proffesion because there is no reward in their sectors of employment. so responsibilty needs to be taken when you become the president and i hope you have enough reasons to need to your educated mass because once you have too many educated people even at the lever of form four trust me peole are not going to withstand and ignore things that are done with the current administration. 2. second solution yako ya kutatua matatizo ya Afya private sector uta encourage ichangie on that sector to ease the government pain of building many hospitals, ok based on your own post. ulikua sijui unakubaliana na post ya nani kusema kwamba an average man only needs access to basic needs na afya yake ni kitu ambacho ni muhimu katika maisha yake nakubaliana na wewe hapo. now lets look at this argument first who is an average man in the country of 40m(according to your sources) with that no. of people where it is estimated between 70 to 80 percent are in poverty. lets go with the middle percent just to justify the argument. in a country of 40m, and 75% in poverty who needs the government to provide them with a system that would enable them to meet the demands you have mentioned in your post. that is a ratio of 3:1 or 30m people to 10m million people. haya first of all at the moment not all those 10m million who are not considered poor can afford private hospital bills. sasa kuna faida gani ya ku-increase this sector au unasahau kwamba private means offering better quality at a costly bill. again unataka kukimbia responsibility mh., or labda you got carried away and forgot we need realistic views what needs to be done and not what we think should be done. 3. nakubaliana na sehemu ya kwanza ya argument hii uncessary spending have to go beginning with scrapping the id which they are proposing at the moment mambo ya kuiga na idea zingine zozote ambazo azisaidii jamii wala aziboreshi uduma. second i do not know about shughuli za wakuu wa mikoa but kupunguza wabunge in my opinion is not a solution matter of fact it will be big mistake. kwanza in a democracy we need challengers to the administration kitendo cha kupunguza wabunge ni kupunguza democrasia na challenge kwa serikali, labda wapiga kura sasa waanze kufikiria kuchagua mtu atakae wapigania haki zao rather than mtu tu kwa sababu katoka kwao kama Edward Lowassa ambae ana faida yeyote bali hasara tu kwa taifa. lastly mungu akupe nguvu ya kufuata ndoto yako

Mkuu thank you for your post. The point of putting something in public is so that people can scrutinize it until we can come up with something reasonable. I will try to answer you the best way i can.

1.Kusema watu at least wakifke form four is reasonable. The minimum education requirement for government is O Levels so what is the point of encouraging people to just finish at least standard seven as it stands now? Can you answer that? Secondly you talk about teachers and how they need to be more qualified, don't you think if the level of education is raised the teachers will be better qualified? Because the future teachers would have studied within the new system. Even now there are qualified teachers who even have degrees. Also you talk about many going to the private sector to study and then you talk about many Tanzanians being poor later on sasa nikueleweje? You say many Tanzanians so how many Tanzanians can afford the private schools? Because as you already said private means more expensive and in a country of poor people I don't know how you reached the conclusion that many prefer to seek their training in private schools wakati they can't even afford them. You also talk about our well educated going to other countries. The world is a free market and everybody goes where they think they will get more pay and career advancement. You want to tell me as we stand Tanzania can compete with Canada on those terms? Achana na Watanzania wanao kimbilia nje the country will be build by us who chose to stay back home. Sawa we need them but if they decide to do what can we do? Because many who leave is because of money so you expect our salaries to compete with those of Canada? I would like to here how you propose we improve the educational system. In your opinion what is the right way to go about this?

About the health sector. If you read carefully I said something about creating a national standard for which hospitals to operate in. That mean there services would be required to be of a certain standard and hence forth the government controls the pricing so that it is not unreasonable. One thing I might add here is that we need insurance policies for the poor which would help the average person get at least some help with their bills, I will explain the insurance later.
Unasema ni kukwepa responsibility for the government to get help from the private sector on health? Mkuu how do you expect a poor government to do all this? Kumbuka we are talking about Tanzania still in the developing stage. You can't say it's avoiding responsibility for the government to get some burden relief from the private sector. If so please tell me a country in which the government does everything. Please tell me how if you were a leader you would make sure the government can partake in everything. Kumbuka even the United State's health care system is not perfect ndiyo maana Obama ana pigania a new bill on health care.

Kama kuwa na wabunge wengi basi let's have a thousand members of parliament. From your statement you are implying that the more MP's the more democracy prevails. Are you sure about that? What I talked about is reducing the size of parliament not to eradicate it. But if you can give me a good reason why it is a bad idea I may be willing to change my view but siyo kuwa ita punguza democracy. Right now as our bunge is unaona kuna democracy? I would also like advise on how you think democracy can be improved in Tanzania since it's something I didn't talk about.

I value so much your views and opinions. I know I can't be right at everything and maybe there will be different opinions here and there. Again the point of debate is to get ideas so we can get a sound plan for our country. God bless you mkuu.

[Juma Contena]

	Quote:	MwanaFalsafa1
	Mkuu thank you for your post. The point of putting something in public is so that people can scrutinize it until we can come up with something reasonable. I will try to answer you the best way i can. 1.Kusema watu at least wakifke form four is reasonable. The minimum education requirement for government is O Levels so what is the point of encouraging people to just finish at least standard seven as it stands now? Can you answer that? Secondly you talk about teachers and how they need to be more qualified, don't you think if the level of education is raised the teachers will be better qualified? Because the future teachers would have studied within the new system. Even now there are qualified teachers who even have degrees. Also you talk about many going to the private sector to study and then you talk about many Tanzanians being poor later on sasa nikueleweje? You say many Tanzanians so how many Tanzanians can afford the private schools? Because as you already said private means more expensive and in a country of poor people I don't know how you reached the conclusion that many prefer to seek their training in private schools wakati they can't even afford them. You also talk about our well educated going to other countries. The world is a free market and everybody goes where they think they will get more pay and career advancement. You want to tell me as we stand Tanzania can compete with Canada on those terms? Achana na Watanzania wanao kimbilia nje the country will be build by us who chose to stay back home. Sawa we need them but if they decide to do what can we do? Because many who leave is because of money so you expect our salaries to compete with those of Canada? I would like to here how you propose we improve the educational system. In your opinion what is the right way to go about this? About the health sector. If you read carefully I said something about creating a national standard for which hospitals to operate in. That mean there services would be required to be of a certain standard and hence forth the government controls the pricing so that it is not unreasonable. One thing I might add here is that we need insurance policies for the poor which would help the average person get at least some help with their bills, I will explain the insurance later. Unasema ni kukwepa responsibility for the government to get help from the private sector on health? Mkuu how do you expect a poor government to do all this? Kumbuka we are talking about Tanzania still in the developing stage. You can't say it's avoiding responsibility for the government to get some burden relief from the private sector. If so please tell me a country in which the government does everything. Please tell me how if you were a leader you would make sure the government can partake in everything. Kumbuka even the United State's health care system is not perfect ndiyo maana Obama ana pigania a new bill on health care. Kama kuwa na wabunge wengi basi let's have a thousand members of parliament. From your statement you are implying that the more MP's the more democracy prevails. Are you sure about that? What I talked about is reducing the size of parliament not to eradicate it. But if you can give me a good reason why it is a bad idea I may be willing to change my view but siyo kuwa ita punguza democracy. Right now as our bunge is unaona kuna democracy? I would also like advise on how you think democracy can be improved in Tanzania since it's something I didn't talk about. I value so much your views and opinions. I know I can't be right at everything and maybe there will be different opinions here and there. Again the point of debate is to get ideas so we can get a sound plan for our country. God bless you mkuu.

Mh., for staters i like making things clear if im misinterpreted, i never said students prefer private school, but the teachers at the moment would prefer private sector to the government schools due to pay difference i know this kwa sababu wakati nipo secondary Umbwe atukua na mwalimu wa biashara for almost a year and that is the entire 0'level na baada ya kuja alikuwa ni mmoja ambae anatakiwa afundishe madarasa yote uoni uhaba hapo tayari.

kitu kingine amna mtu ambae anaweza ku-sort social problems on his own because the're soo many ways(approaches to this problems) tackiling these problems require debates and reasoning among people and no state doesn't do this. opinions are there to differ and be solved, by compromises on the lines of the reasoning that the solution is going to benefit many.

1. kuhusu hoja yako ya kusema elimu hiwe eti ya sijui standard gani au form gani based on what the government think is limited in my opinion. na serikali bado kama ina lenga hapo yaani form four for most then is out of touch on what is required to build a succesful society. wakati bado tupo kwenye mstari huu we, uoni kama kitu akileti faida kinaitaji mabadiliko. first of all mtu anaemaliza form (average student) ana ubunifu wowote wa kumsaidia kima maisha all he/she has is the basic knowledge and understanding of things yaani kwa lugha ya mzungu bado ni simple therefore the government has to provide him with means of employment kitu ambacho atuna.
tena kuhusu suala la walimu nilichosema ukumbuke unavyotanua hizo shule unahitaji na walimu na elimu inavyozidi kuwa ya juu the more qualified they need to be that is the teachers. sasa based on the current market hao walimu wa juu especially wenye degree zao mtu aache kwenda private, au kutumumia elimu yake kwenye employment sector apelekee serikali ya tanzania kwa mshahara mbuzi.
aim of ya hoja ilikuwa ni kujibu hoja yako ya elimu ya kwamba lazima uangalie elimu ya form four ina msaidia mtu ku-achieve kitu gani bbada ya hapo. kwa sababu kitendo cha kumwambia mwanafunzi atakaemaliza form four kuwa umefikia kiwango ambacho serikali inakutambua kama we ni msomi ni kumwongopea. mwanafunzi wa form especially tanzania anajibu mtihani wa multiple chioces ata kujenga hoja bado ajui. ndio nikasema mbona una aim low. kitu kingine nilichosema vile hata hao wasomi tuliokuwa nao serikali aiwatumii ndio maana wengi uishia kuwa wanasiasa kwa faida zao na wengine ukimbilia nchi za nje kuboresha maisha yao na vile ni nchi ambazo zina heshimu elimu ya juu. sasa nchi kama kanada in university ngapi, watu wangapi wenye degrees na idadi ni kubwa kama utakuwa mkweli. lakini bado inachukua na wa kwetu ambao atuwatumii. ujengi nchi hivyo sasa uanua nchi hawa watu wanatakiwa wawepo nyumbani wawa elimishe wengine. hivyo serikali ilitakiwa iwalinde na mishahara ya kulizika kuliko wapuuzi wabunge wasio na faida. lazima uangalie cost ya kumpeleka mtu nje kusoma, mfano UK mi nilipo ina cost £11,000 per year for a laboratory degree, na £7000 for any other degree depending on what degree your own but a shortes degree is 3yrs. sasa profesa mmoja ambae yupo kanada ambae kaelimika nje ana uwezo wa ku-kufundisha how many graduates aka offer the same quality of education after all if he is good for canadians then he must be to good for us, to let him go. to keep them you need pay them as they deserve. mambo ni mengi wacha niishie hapa kwa hili.

kuhusu national health hii nitajibu haraka as i have other things to do in the computer, na allday i've been doing this. ila kesho tena nitaendelea nipo nntacheck responses but i have other things to do if im honest. haya unajua lets not jump into things that we just saw others are doing. can the government afford to cover 30million insurance a year based on our income au ndio nasema being unrealistic hiyo hela itatoka wapi ya kulipia. sisi si wamarekani where empolyment is better, the amount tax collected there is ridicolous 'Jaz and Beyonce' alone yearly tax is enough to build one hospital in tanznania lets think pls. haya bado kampuni zinazolipa tax two major congramarates tax is almost our yearly badget lets think things through first.

nisamehe ila kuna kitu nafanya na lazima ni malize either nntaendelea baadae nikirudi home au kesho tena lakini kwa leo siwezi type anymore. ila nipo nntakua nachungulia but i cant type anymore for today.